Cayman 981s vs. 718
02-05-2018, 04:40 AM
#211
Well, if the rumors are true this discussion is no longer an issue for me. Supposedly all 718 production for the US has been cancelled to divert production to the EU. If that turns out to be true, and given that I'm not quite willing to compromise when I'm buying at this level, that I think I'll just give up. I mean having to wait a year for a car...no thanks. I'm going to spend some money on my .:R and try to be happy with that. Maybe in 2 or 3 years I'll reconsidered, but if it's this hard to get the car maybe I shouldn't have one. Have fun!
02-05-2018, 08:13 AM
#212
Interesting, there is a big difference between a journalist and a works driver. I think you'll find the 991.2 S was driven by Chris Gebhardt and the 991.1 S was driven by Timo Kluck who happens to be a Porsche works driver. As a rule of thumb you can add at least 1s per minute between a talented amateur and a pro.
So the 991.2 S with Chris Gebhardt at the wheel did a very quick 7:34.0 and the 991.1S with Timo Kluck at the wheel did 7:37.9 now correct for the very reasonable difference in abilities and you get ~ 7:46 for the 991.1 S. So the difference is significant.
In fact what you'll find is the 718S is pretty much on par with the 991.1S in spite of the difference in peak toque and peak HP favouring the 991.1S. Thus it is implicit that the chassis, brakes and engine are working in harmony in the 718S, more so than in the case of the 991.1S.
In fact the French magazine Motorsport noted the difference between the 718S and the 997 GT3 RS to be 0.1s.........in favour of the 718S.
This tells me and any reasonable observer that the 718S is a very fine, balanced and capable sports car. Moreover, I spent three days with a 718S in Sept 2016 (track/town/country). Its a gem and a very, very capable one at that.
So the 991.2 S with Chris Gebhardt at the wheel did a very quick 7:34.0 and the 991.1S with Timo Kluck at the wheel did 7:37.9 now correct for the very reasonable difference in abilities and you get ~ 7:46 for the 991.1 S. So the difference is significant.
In fact what you'll find is the 718S is pretty much on par with the 991.1S in spite of the difference in peak toque and peak HP favouring the 991.1S. Thus it is implicit that the chassis, brakes and engine are working in harmony in the 718S, more so than in the case of the 991.1S.
In fact the French magazine Motorsport noted the difference between the 718S and the 997 GT3 RS to be 0.1s.........in favour of the 718S.
This tells me and any reasonable observer that the 718S is a very fine, balanced and capable sports car. Moreover, I spent three days with a 718S in Sept 2016 (track/town/country). Its a gem and a very, very capable one at that.
Which would put Gebhardts hypothetical time in a 991.1 S probably not that far off of Kluk’s. Especially since he already got a GT4 “only” 4 seconds slower than Kluk’s 991.1 S time.
What I think it really comes to is that aside from pure acceleration via low range torque, the .2’s aren’t *significantly* faster than .1’s. The main difference is that low end torque. Trap speed which is a truer barometer of true power is less significant than the acceleration times of the two cars. .1 base and .1 S trap about 3-4 MPH less than .2 base and S. Not a massive difference.
02-05-2018, 10:01 AM
#213
K-A, anyone that has driven round the ring - will tell you more or less what I told you. The GT3 991.2 driven by works drivers was approximately 8 seconds faster than when driven by Christian Gebhardt. The numbers I have given you are a fair representation and probably under represent the actuality.
As I said above the 718S is about on par with the 991.1 S - but is a far more nuanced and rewarding drive.
As I said above the 718S is about on par with the 991.1 S - but is a far more nuanced and rewarding drive.
02-05-2018, 10:19 AM
#214
Rennlist Member
Funny I have lived through the battles between the 911/944/928 owners and how mine is better than yours that still to this day has its moments. The 993 is better than a 964 which also lives on today but nothing quite takes the cake like the debate over the 718 vs the 981. I purchased my 981 BGTS as a Sunday cruiser to put the top down and enjoy the sound and well balanced performance level. I did not buy nor would I buy one of these for their speed stats but that is me.
As soon as anyone says they prefer the 981 sound, feel or looks over the 718 the 718 guys jump all over them. All I read is the 718 is faster, has low end torque is faster around the ring ad nauseum. I am glad there are those that like the 718. When I attended the Porsche driving experience held at Met Life stadium there were a number of NY Jets players attending and when they got out of the 718 and 991's they were all enthralled by them but admitted this was their first time in a Porsche. The rest of us long time owners were less than enchanted. I was more impressed by the Macan GTS and I purchased one.
I like the 718 and appreciate it for what it is but just as I would never own a 993 over a 964 I appreciate my 981 over a 718. If that is hate then I guess it is but I only read into this by new enthusiasts with less than 100 posts that they are hurt by the fact we don't appreciate them in the same way you do. I guess that is why Baskin Robbins makes so many flavers of ice cream.
As soon as anyone says they prefer the 981 sound, feel or looks over the 718 the 718 guys jump all over them. All I read is the 718 is faster, has low end torque is faster around the ring ad nauseum. I am glad there are those that like the 718. When I attended the Porsche driving experience held at Met Life stadium there were a number of NY Jets players attending and when they got out of the 718 and 991's they were all enthralled by them but admitted this was their first time in a Porsche. The rest of us long time owners were less than enchanted. I was more impressed by the Macan GTS and I purchased one.
I like the 718 and appreciate it for what it is but just as I would never own a 993 over a 964 I appreciate my 981 over a 718. If that is hate then I guess it is but I only read into this by new enthusiasts with less than 100 posts that they are hurt by the fact we don't appreciate them in the same way you do. I guess that is why Baskin Robbins makes so many flavers of ice cream.
02-05-2018, 10:21 AM
#215
K-A, anyone that has driven round the ring - will tell you more or less what I told you. The GT3 991.2 driven by works drivers was approximately 8 seconds faster than when driven by Christian Gebhardt. The numbers I have given you are a fair representation and probably under represent the actuality.
As I said above the 718S is about on par with the 991.1 S - but is a far more nuanced and rewarding drive.
As I said above the 718S is about on par with the 991.1 S - but is a far more nuanced and rewarding drive.
Gebhardt did a 7.42 with a manual 981 GT4. The 991.1 S with PDK in his hands WILL be faster. Therefore, it would likely be very near the current 7.37.9 record time for the 991.1 S.
02-05-2018, 10:55 AM
#216
There are definitely people who strongly dislike the car, myself included, for purely personal reasons. But that's entirely different than saying it's a bad car, from an objective viewpoint, because it's not. It is a great car from a performance perspective and anyone who loves it has no explaining to do as to why. I wouldn't begrudge someone for loving the 718. It's personal preference, no different than which color to get. Which is another subject people have strong opinions about...
On a tangent, if the forum moderators would have done the smart thing and broken out a sub forum for the new Turbo cars, including the 991.2, Rennlist would have been a much more pleasant place for the last 18 months.
On a tangent, if the forum moderators would have done the smart thing and broken out a sub forum for the new Turbo cars, including the 991.2, Rennlist would have been a much more pleasant place for the last 18 months.
02-05-2018, 12:15 PM
#217
Don't forget Coke vs Pepsi.
Or 9mm vs 45acp.
Ford vs Chevy.
Ginger vs Mary Ann.
I think some people are so insecure they have to justify their opinions to others. Get what you like, let others get what they like.
Enjoy what you have. As long as you drink Mountain Dew of course.
Or 9mm vs 45acp.
Ford vs Chevy.
Ginger vs Mary Ann.
I think some people are so insecure they have to justify their opinions to others. Get what you like, let others get what they like.
Enjoy what you have. As long as you drink Mountain Dew of course.
02-05-2018, 12:18 PM
#218
but then there was "New Coke" and we know what happened there.....
EDIT: Full Disclosure. My room mate in grad school went out and bought multiple cases of "old Coke". He became a bit of a hoarder. I don't think he is a Coke Millionaire from his efforts.
EDIT: Full Disclosure. My room mate in grad school went out and bought multiple cases of "old Coke". He became a bit of a hoarder. I don't think he is a Coke Millionaire from his efforts.
02-05-2018, 12:24 PM
#219
Instructor
Originally Posted by cobalt
Funny I have lived through the battles between the 911/944/928 owners and how mine is better than yours that still to this day has its moments. The 993 is better than a 964 which also lives on today but nothing quite takes the cake like the debate over the 718 vs the 981. I purchased my 981 BGTS as a Sunday cruiser to put the top down and enjoy the sound and well balanced performance level. I did not buy nor would I buy one of these for their speed stats but that is me.
As soon as anyone says they prefer the 981 sound, feel or looks over the 718 the 718 guys jump all over them. All I read is the 718 is faster, has low end torque is faster around the ring ad nauseum. I am glad there are those that like the 718. When I attended the Porsche driving experience held at Met Life stadium there were a number of NY Jets players attending and when they got out of the 718 and 991's they were all enthralled by them but admitted this was their first time in a Porsche. The rest of us long time owners were less than enchanted. I was more impressed by the Macan GTS and I purchased one.
I like the 718 and appreciate it for what it is but just as I would never own a 993 over a 964 I appreciate my 981 over a 718. If that is hate then I guess it is but I only read into this by new enthusiasts with less than 100 posts that they are hurt by the fact we don't appreciate them in the same way you do. I guess that is why Baskin Robbins makes so many flavers of ice cream.
As soon as anyone says they prefer the 981 sound, feel or looks over the 718 the 718 guys jump all over them. All I read is the 718 is faster, has low end torque is faster around the ring ad nauseum. I am glad there are those that like the 718. When I attended the Porsche driving experience held at Met Life stadium there were a number of NY Jets players attending and when they got out of the 718 and 991's they were all enthralled by them but admitted this was their first time in a Porsche. The rest of us long time owners were less than enchanted. I was more impressed by the Macan GTS and I purchased one.
I like the 718 and appreciate it for what it is but just as I would never own a 993 over a 964 I appreciate my 981 over a 718. If that is hate then I guess it is but I only read into this by new enthusiasts with less than 100 posts that they are hurt by the fact we don't appreciate them in the same way you do. I guess that is why Baskin Robbins makes so many flavers of ice cream.
02-05-2018, 12:40 PM
#220
Not to mention this thread is about six months old and the OP has already moved on and bought a 718. Now we are left to discuss this topic for posterity.
02-06-2018, 12:47 AM
#222
Racer
People are allowed to prefer whatever they want--no question; and they can state their preferences--no question.
However, coming to an enthusiasts' forum and bad-mouthing other enthusiasts' preferences shows a lack of certainty in one's own preferences.
However, coming to an enthusiasts' forum and bad-mouthing other enthusiasts' preferences shows a lack of certainty in one's own preferences.