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Cayman 981s vs. 718

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Old 12-24-2017, 07:10 PM
  #31
Noah Fect
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Originally Posted by JWYR View Post
Would an option like buying a base 981 and then spending the money to have it built to a 4.0 - 4.2 solve the low end torque? It seems like the largest advantage of the new 4 is low end torque. Increaseing displacement in the 6 would solve this. I have not ran the numbers, but a used early base 981 is a good value. After buying the base 981, you would have a lot left over before approaching the price of a new well optioned 718S. I was looking at new 718s last month. I came with in minutes of pulling the trigger. I loved the car, but something kept me from buying it. The 718S was $89k. For that range, I thought I would be better off ordering a GTS. Now I am in a holding pattern. I sticker shock has me refocused on building my current Porsche.
Sure. Remember that you have fewer constraints than Porsche did. Assuming you don't live in China, you can throw displacement at the problem. It won't be cheap, but keeping your current car is literally priceless... and the depreciation associated with buying a $90K 718 will be like taking a cannonball to the solar plexus.

A supercharger for your existing 2.7L engine would be a very interesting mod, if someone has done the necessary engineering work.
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Old 12-31-2017, 06:42 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by lajoiedp View Post


Iím glad you enjoy your 981. Itís a great car. But for ME, I much prefer the 718 overall. Thatís exactly why we all have our own opinions. We all have a diffferent priority list when it comes to everything in life, including what we like in our sports cars. I test drive several 981ís and the overall experience didnít do it for ME. But Iím happy it does for YOU. There are reasons why car manufacturers make more than one model of car - not everyone has the same need or taste.
Originally Posted by lajoiedp View Post


BTW, where in my post did I ďcrap oní people who feel sound is a priority? If sound is a high priority for you then I can understand why you would choose the 981 over the 718. If you believe the interior and exterior look of the 981 is better than the 718 than the 981 is for you. My priorities and opinions are obviously completely opposite of yours. Iím okay with that. Why wouldnít I be. Iím just expressing my opinion. I donít expect everyone to have the same needs/wants. Neither does Porsche BTW. I drove a base 981 when I first started looking at the Cayman a year ago and hated the lack of low end torque so much I stopped considering the Cayman all together - until I read about the improved low end torque of the 718 (fact, not opinion). For ME, that combined with the availability of the Black/Bordeaux all leather interior did it.
Enjoy your 981. Great car!
I'm fine with people liking different cars, however in your post #24 you sounded like you were crapping on anyone that didnt see that the 718 was "superior in every way" to the 981. That is why I said that your use of "superior" is wrong, because it makes it sound like fact, not what you like. Had you said it was "superior to me" I would not have even responded.

So I'll leave it there. It just gets old as most of the 718 drivers seem to **** on the 981 guys because we cant appreciate the "superior" performance of the 718, when for many people, the 981 is more than enough performance for 99% of the people for a road car.

But as you said, enjoy your 718 its a great car.
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Old 12-31-2017, 11:50 PM
  #33
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Iíve owned 987 Cayman base, 981 Boxster S, GT4, and now 981 Spyder, all manual.

Before buying the Spyder, test drove a nice looking GT Silver 718 Cayman S manual w/Sport Chrono, Sport Exhaust, and Sport suspension hoping for it to be great. After 2 minutes, knew Iíd sooner spend same money to buy back my former 981 Boxster S than a new 718.

The 4-banger engine sound was atrocious, like an old Craftsman lawnmower. Turning on the sport exhaust just made the bad noise louder.

Even the manual transmission seemed harder to drive smoothly when shifting gears, maybe because of the less linear power delivery of the turbo?

Only positive takeaway was ďthe new PCM screen looks niceĒ.

long story short, donít buy the 718 turbo 4. Itís a low point for Porsche.
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Old 01-01-2018, 07:13 AM
  #34
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Old 01-01-2018, 07:50 PM
  #35
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Couldn't agree more Lapis. I took a local dealership 718 Boxster S for a spin recently while I was waiting at the service department and thought this sounds just like a WRX, not the unique Porsche sports car sound that I love. It really poured cold water onto the whole experience. As a result I won't be upgrading my 981 Boxster GTS anytime soon, unless the 718 Spyder or GT4 stay with a NA flat 6. I'm generally on board with 'enhancements' Porsche has made to its sports cars over the years, but this one is just really on the nose for me. In time I'm sure I'll become gently resigned to the loss of 2 cylinders, but for now the overall experience one gets with the flat 6 is something to be savored while it lasts.
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Old 01-03-2018, 07:04 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Lapis View Post
I’ve owned 987 Cayman base, 981 Boxster S, GT4, and now 981 Spyder, all manual.

Before buying the Spyder, test drove a nice looking GT Silver 718 Cayman S manual w/Sport Chrono, Sport Exhaust, and Sport suspension hoping for it to be great. After 2 minutes, knew I’d sooner spend same money to buy back my former 981 Boxster S than a new 718.

The 4-banger engine sound was atrocious, like an old Craftsman lawnmower. Turning on the sport exhaust just made the bad noise louder.

Even the manual transmission seemed harder to drive smoothly when shifting gears, maybe because of the less linear power delivery of the turbo?

Only positive takeaway was “the new PCM screen looks nice”.

long story short, don’t buy the 718 turbo 4. It’s a low point for Porsche.
I’ve owned 987 Cayman base, 981 Boxster S, 981 Boxster GTS and and now a 718 Boxster S all with manual transmisson. Also a 991 Turbo S (PDK)

Before buying the 718, I test drove a nice looking Black 718 Cayman S manual w/Sport Chrono, Sport Exhaust, and Sport suspension hoping for it to be great. After 2 minutes, I knew how superior the 718 is to my 987,987 or 981 cars

The 4-banger engine sound was different, but I liked its gruff, powerful sound.

The manual transmission seemed even smoother when shifting gears, and there was virtually no turbo lag.

The positive takeaway was the handling, steering feel, power delivery, torque.

long story short, buy the 718 turbo 4. It’s one of the best Porsches I've owned (17 of them, to date).
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Old 01-03-2018, 07:25 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by pc4ever View Post
Iíve owned 987 Cayman base, 981 Boxster S, 981 Boxster GTS and and now a 718 Boxster S all with manual transmisson. Also a 991 Turbo S (PDK)
Teach me your ways, Master!
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Old 01-03-2018, 07:53 PM
  #38
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I have no doubt the car is a screamer. I'm not necessarily opposed to four cylinder cars but the price point? Makes my car seem like a unique bargain.
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Old 01-03-2018, 08:00 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by CaymanSinAR View Post
Teach me your ways, Master!
Old and lucky
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Old 01-03-2018, 08:27 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by pc4ever View Post
Iíve owned 987 Cayman base, 981 Boxster S, 981 Boxster GTS and and now a 718 Boxster S all with manual transmisson. Also a 991 Turbo S (PDK)

Before buying the 718, I test drove a nice looking Black 718 Cayman S manual w/Sport Chrono, Sport Exhaust, and Sport suspension hoping for it to be great. After 2 minutes, I knew how superior the 718 is to my 987,987 or 981 cars

The 4-banger engine sound was different, but I liked its gruff, powerful sound.

The manual transmission seemed even smoother when shifting gears, and there was virtually no turbo lag.

The positive takeaway was the handling, steering feel, power delivery, torque.

long story short, buy the 718 turbo 4. Itís one of the best Porsches I've owned (17 of them, to date).
Touchť!

have I started a storytelling structure meme like ďHitler reacts to...Ē?
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Old 01-04-2018, 10:41 AM
  #41
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Please explain superior? I have extensively driven these and have owned many Porsche's. I agree the 718 is more capable when pushed hard WOT but the lag was so apparent to me and I have one of the early laggy early turbo cars. I still find my 981 GTS with sport suspension and some tweaks to respond as well and I don't find the handling differences you seem to find. On track times are similar and tweaked 981's vs 718s showing consistently quicker track times.. So is it different or superior?
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Old 01-04-2018, 12:57 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
Please explain superior? I have extensively driven these and have owned many Porsche's. I agree the 718 is more capable when pushed hard WOT but the lag was so apparent to me and I have one of the early laggy early turbo cars. I still find my 981 GTS with sport suspension and some tweaks to respond as well and I don't find the handling differences you seem to find. On track times are similar and tweaked 981's vs 718s showing consistently quicker track times.. So is it different or superior?
The better word might be ďimprovedĒ, and I donít feel much turbo lag at all with the 718 and Iíve owned many, many turbo charged cars in the past.
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Old 01-04-2018, 01:41 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by lajoiedp View Post
The better word might be ďimprovedĒ, and I donít feel much turbo lag at all with the 718 and Iíve owned many, many turbo charged cars in the past.
I donít recall the 718 Cayman S that I drove having turbo lag, per se, but different style of power delivery, like all turbo charged cars have, vs NA.

I didnít feel any handling improvements on the new 718 Cayman S that I drove (again: manual, Sport suspension, Sport Chrono) vs my past 981-based cars (981 Boxster S with base suspension, GT4), nor vs the 981 Spyder I drove immediately afterwards and bought the same day. But then again, except for the 981 Boxster S, those other two 981-based cars one would expect to outperform a 718 Cayman S in the handling Dept. Also note that the 718 Cayman S had its standard tires vs nearly new Trofeo R tires on the 981 Spyder that I drove and bought and Michelin Cup 2 on GT4. The tires probably have a bigger impact on handling feel than whatever improvements the 718 may have in the suspension Dept.

To me, the biggest difference by far is the feel and sound of the engine. Of course itís subjective whether one prefers NA 6 over turbo 4 in this regard. Having become accustomed to my previous flat 6 NA P-cars, and frankly having enjoyed the sound and feel of those carsí engines and power delivery style as one of the best things about those cars, Iím in the flat 6 NA camp.

Thatís not to say Iím against turbos in principle. Theyíre great in my daily driver cars. And theyíre undisputed when it comes to flat out performance and probably efficiency potential too. But thatís not what a small sports car is about, IMO. Itís about feeling.

To to sum it up, after driving the new 718 Cayman S, which in most ways except for engine is very similar to a 981 platform with comparable options, the first sound that came out of me when pulling away in the 981 Spyder was ďAhhh, thank God.Ē
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Old 01-04-2018, 02:27 PM
  #44
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"Improved" is still not an appropriate word. The new car is objectively "faster," but many prefer the outgoing models. Improved suggests the new car is objectively better, which it is not. If speed was the only measure of a car's desirability and driving, we would all be in short block vette's, right? This is not to say the 718 is bad or worse itself, though -- for those who crave torque or have to buy new, the 718 is a very nice car. Agree with Lapis that I felt no handling differences.
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Old 01-04-2018, 10:14 PM
  #45
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- I very much want the 718 to be very successful for Porsche and I'm glad it's being purchased and looked upon enthusiastically by owners and others. I want the Boxster/Cayman platform to continue as its heritage is deep in Porsche's past when their mid-engine cars ruled endurance racing. Porsche took great risk by moving to a 4 cylinder engine so I hope it pans out. I don't like words like better or superior as they don't really say anything but most often come across as diatribe. Journalists seem to be the ones who usually try to express small incremental change as significant leaps and it usually falls very short of real world differences.
- I'm perplexed as to why there is no X73 suspension option for the 718. While Porsche and owners can claim the 718 suspension is improved (base to base), they aren't making that claim against X73 equipped 981s (or 987s for that matter). For those who love PASM and have never driven an X73 equipped 987 or 981, you have no idea what you're missing. The X73 option transforms the platform, far more so than differences a higher performing tire can make. Perfectly balanced setup with no ill manners, and no button to push. Best OEM suspension I've ever used in the real world. X73 was an option and can still be retrofitted to base 981 Boxsters/Caymans for not a lot of money. There's no wonder why Porsche made it the only suspension option (and a standard feature) for the most special Boxster/Cayman offerings to date such as the Boxster Spyders (987 and 981) and the Cayman R.
- The argument of wanting increased low end engine torque is not necessarily valid to me. If you think you don't have enough low end torque for a given situation you're probably driving in the wrong gear for the situation. Force is the measure of acceleration, which is gear multiplied engine torque transmitted to the ground, not engine torque alone. Driven correctly any NA Porsche has more than enough Force on tap to meet the demands in a speed constrained street environment. And during spirited driving, aside from initial inertia are you ever in the low range of rpms so the 718's "more low end torque" becomes relevant? Midrange and upper end power is the real heartbeat of the motor and where the reward lies. I've only owned 300+ hp Boxsters/Cayman but never once have I thought the low end torque was inadequate. Change those gears! In fact, it was my first drive in a friend's 987 base Boxster that made me rethink why I owned a 997 Carrera S. I was amazed at how well the 987 base cornered compared to my much more powerful 997S (with PASM!). And I thought the acceleration was impressive for a sub 300 hp car. Again, be in the right gear and you will be rewarded. If you feel you need to drive in high gears at low speeds and have hard acceleration on tap in gear, I question why you enjoy driving a sports car outside of the aesthetic.
- What I like most about the 718 is that Porsche opened up the color pallet a bit, and the rear end of the 718 is better looking than the 981 especially in terms of rear spoiler integration and taillights. Having LED headlights is also a plus and looks nice. What I find odd about the 718's exterior styling is why Porsche seems to be flattening the front deck by removing the fender curves which are almost non-existent now. The 987 curves headlight to taillight were perfection and with the 981, Porsche squared off the top of them which took me a while to come to grips with. The wonderful curves of the 987 are almost completely gone with the 718. I fear for the next generation in terms of styling. Hopefully they won't go near the look of the 911 slant nose.
- Enjoy what you like. All Boxsters/Caymans are superb to drive. Realize there's lot of options and differences within each generation and not all newer specifications are necessarily a step up comparatively. My beloved Cayman R was a very rewarding drive. It took the 2016 Spyder for me to let go of it. As a twice former 997 Carrera S owner, I always wondered what the 3.8 would be like in a Boxster/Cayman, not for additional low end torque but for the high end punch. Now I think I have the best of both worlds and have no plan to let go of my Spyder regardless of what Porsche comes out with next.
The engine noise argument is legit, at least for the Boxster/Cayman since the motor is inches from the occupants. Not sure I could knowingly give up that high rpm howl. Even my 2008 RS60 Spyder had an incredible engine noise at full throttle.
Cheers!
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