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981 and 991 Test Drives (and comps to a few other 911s)

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Old 10-21-2012 | 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by blake
This is a great question. Perhaps the difference is that hydraulics don't provide a linear reponse to an input, whereas an electric system can be calibrated any way imaginable (perhaps variable is the word). I think this difference would show up in feel... This makes me wonder what logic is controlling the electric callibration - and whether or not an after-market tuner can alter the calibrations. Perhaps a re-tuning of the 991 steering would make it a bit more fun.
Edit: this post is wrong for 981/991; the article I was referring to was talking about the Synchrotronic used in the Cayanne and Panamera.

It doesn't really work like that, though; the pump is going to be putting out the same pressure to the power steering rack regardless of whether it's driven by the serpentine belt, an electric motor, or an axillary steam engine in the trunk. In other words: it should be (and probably is) impossible to tell whether the power steering pump is electric or mechanically driven. The difference in feel has to be something else.

Typical power steering system:
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Last edited by sjfehr; 10-27-2012 at 03:21 PM.
Old 10-22-2012 | 01:25 PM
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Chris Harris talks about the new power steering in this review, including a mention that it works better in the 981 than the 991:

Old 10-25-2012 | 01:44 PM
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The 981 steering is electromechanical, not electrohydraulic. I have seen a diagram of the system, but unfortunately I can't find it to post a link.
Old 10-25-2012 | 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by sjfehr
It doesn't really work like that, though; the pump is going to be putting out the same pressure to the power steering rack regardless of whether it's driven by the serpentine belt, an electric motor, or an axillary steam engine in the trunk. In other words: it should be (and probably is) impossible to tell whether the power steering pump is electric or mechanically driven. The difference in feel has to be something else.
The e-steering Porsche uses is all electric, there are no hydraulics in it. And it is not a simple hydraulic assist being replaced by a similar electric assist. The e-steering is a complex closed loop control system assisting the steering with a multitude of inputs, including slip angle and others. What this means is that one feels another driver at the wheel (so to speak) making decisions for you. Some will like it, others less so.
Old 10-25-2012 | 04:52 PM
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Piston Heads did a good article about the EPAS on the 991

http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=52&i=26213
Old 10-27-2012 | 03:21 PM
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Apoligies, all, I was mistaken about 981/991. In retrospect, the Porsche engineer's quote I was remembering was talking about the Cayanne, which I'm pretty sure does use a an electro-hydraulic synchrotronic transmission like I described.
Old 10-30-2012 | 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by zanwar
Piston Heads did a good article about the EPAS on the 991

http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=52&i=26213
Thanks for the link. That's the first in-depth technical article I've seen on Porsche's system and how they have it set up.

The journalists are all wrong on this one.

As stated in the article, due to the engine switching off at lights, and more important, "sailing mode" on the freeway, electronic motor steering assist is here to stay. IMO, it is not some terrible thing imposed by accountants, and emissions control standards. It is ultimately better in every way. It's lighter, smaller, infinitely adjustable, saves gas, improves torque, and is virtually maintenance free.

The thing to get really excited about, is that it's controlled by a computer, which means that someday tuners will be able to tweak the steering feel to your custom preferences. Pretty cool.

I would personally like to shower some praise on Porsches engineers for pulling off this amazing job. Plenty of people are bitching about it, but I've yet to hear any real legitimate reason why it's not better. Basically they aren't used to the feel, so they trash it, but every single one of them forgets about it completely when they start flogging the car. That says a lot about what a good job the engineers actually did with this ground breaking system, which will only get better as time goes on.

I for one would like to go on record as saying that I consider this another great feature of the new boxster and 911, NOT the weak link, or the worst part of the car.

p.s (The same logic goes for the parking brake button. It was done to save weight, space, and simplify the system.)
Old 10-30-2012 | 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by medtech
Thanks for the link. That's the first in-depth technical article I've seen on Porsche's system and how they have it set up.

The journalists are all wrong on this one.

As stated in the article, due to the engine switching off at lights, and more important, "sailing mode" on the freeway, electronic motor steering assist is here to stay. IMO, it is not some terrible thing imposed by accountants, and emissions control standards. It is ultimately better in every way. It's lighter, smaller, infinitely adjustable, saves gas, improves torque, and is virtually maintenance free.

The thing to get really excited about, is that it's controlled by a computer, which means that someday tuners will be able to tweak the steering feel to your custom preferences. Pretty cool.

I would personally like to shower some praise on Porsches engineers for pulling off this amazing job. Plenty of people are bitching about it, but I've yet to hear any real legitimate reason why it's not better. Basically they aren't used to the feel, so they trash it, but every single one of them forgets about it completely when they start flogging the car. That says a lot about what a good job the engineers actually did with this ground breaking system, which will only get better as time goes on.

I for one would like to go on record as saying that I consider this another great feature of the new boxster and 911, NOT the weak link, or the worst part of the car.

p.s (The same logic goes for the parking brake button. It was done to save weight, space, and simplify the system.)
I cannot disagree with any of your thinking...it makes total sense to me. Furthermore, coming from a 2010 Corvette grand sport to a 2013 Boxster S, to me the steering is perfect.
Old 10-30-2012 | 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by medtech
p.s (The same logic goes for the parking brake button. It was done to save weight, space, and simplify the system.)
Adding electronics and motors is not the way to simplify a basic cable system. Along with redundant start push buttons, one of the worst 'features' to be adopted in modern vehicles. I predict gear selector '*****' to be next.
Old 10-30-2012 | 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan Smithee
Adding electronics and motors is not the way to simplify a basic cable system. Along with redundant start push buttons, one of the worst 'features' to be adopted in modern vehicles. I predict gear selector '*****' to be next.
I wasn't sure I would like the new electric parking brake, but after using it for a few thousand miles, I like it alot. The electric parking brake and the hill assist are park of the same system. One nice feature is that it releases automatically when you drive off, provided you seat belt is fastened.
Old 10-30-2012 | 06:25 PM
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I don't like hill assist either.
Old 10-30-2012 | 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan Smithee
Adding electronics and motors is not the way to simplify a basic cable system. Along with redundant start push buttons, one of the worst 'features' to be adopted in modern vehicles. I predict gear selector '*****' to be next.
Originally Posted by Alan Smithee
I don't like hill assist either.
I couldn't agree more.

At some point, I think it's unlikely we'll be allowed to choose our own gears (other than forward and reverse) - a computer will decide how much power and pollutants (and CO2) we'll be allowed to generate and everything will be 'assisted' so that 'drivers' will get the 'best' compromise chosen by ????
Old 10-30-2012 | 08:36 PM
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How do you compare the 981 to the 987?

I wouldn't buy a 991 either

I think 997 has the sweet spot dialed in. It's better built and more powerful than 996.

991 feels like Porsche wanted to build a BMW. No thanks. Especially since the price tag is now 6 digits.



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