Is your car dual duty (track + daily)? What seats are you using?
02-26-2024, 03:15 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Is your car dual duty (track + daily)? What seats are you using?
I have a base 981 Cayman. It's my only car, so daily commute, weekend driving, and recently, some track days. I've made a few upgrades. Started with front LCAs, then Apex wheels + PS4S, then an FCP Euro brake kit with Sebro rotors and Ferodo DS2500 pads. Last winter I found a used set of Ohlins R&Ts, so that will be new for this year's track days. I'll explore 200TW tires and grabbier pads once my current ones wear out, since I can get more camber out of my suspension now.
Thinking ahead, the next logical step seems to be seat + harness. I've had a lot of people drill into me that safety is a system, so I understand that getting a harness means I need a harness bar / roll bar + HANS, and I need to keep the 3 point seatbelt for street / helmetless driving. With that context, I've been trying to do some research, and I think these are my options:
Questions: Am I missing anything? And if you went through this same decision process, where did you land with your car?
Thinking ahead, the next logical step seems to be seat + harness. I've had a lot of people drill into me that safety is a system, so I understand that getting a harness means I need a harness bar / roll bar + HANS, and I need to keep the 3 point seatbelt for street / helmetless driving. With that context, I've been trying to do some research, and I think these are my options:
- Get a bucket seat + 6 point harness + roll bar. At this point this is more or less a track car. I don't expect my wife will enjoy riding in it any more. getting in and out of the car will become more annoying, and tight parking spots where I can't open the doors fully will become almost impossible
- Get some seats with more bolsters (e.g. Recaro Sportster) and keep the stock belts. I haven't sat in these yet, but I've heard that they will hold me in better than the OEM seats, even with the stock belts. These will slide, recline, can get them heated. In both cases, I'll have to deal with missing seat airbags, occupancy sensor, etc.
Questions: Am I missing anything? And if you went through this same decision process, where did you land with your car?
02-26-2024, 03:24 PM
#2
Following.. for now, I just got my 981 Cayman S today, which has the 2-way Sport Seats Plus.
02-26-2024, 04:18 PM
#3
I've got a lot of thoughts here, bare with me! Have been tracking for ~12 years and have bought, modded, tracked, parted-out, and then sold many many a car. This includes a time when my car was also my daily though I do have an suv to daily now. For at least two cars I over-modded on the track side, including putting in race seats and a harness bar + harnesses. Went through many racey suspension setups as well. I learned a lot doing all of this and don't regret it but each time I went too far I found I stopped enjoying the car on the street. Had some truly epic and amazing track days but then life, kids, etc. and realized I wasn't going to the track as much as I wanted to do. Having a car that sits in the garage or wherever most of the time when you only have 1-2 vehicles is kind of a waste IMO. With my latest 981 S purchase, I feel this is a design point that requires very little to be amazing BOTH on the street and at the track. It took me awhile to realize what I was after and it took a lot of prior modding and learning to get to this point. Now though, I finally have a car that works to my satisfaction in both scenarios. A few things that I think help this and let me address some of your wants here.
(1) Wheels/Tires - PS4S are actually a fantastic tire for dual duty, so long as you are content with the tire then I'd stick with it. If you start to destroy your PS4S too quickly on track though, then you should probably consider buying both street and track wheel sets. Then you can also grab some stickier 200tw tires that likely wouldn't have the same comfort as PS4S on the street.
(2) Suspension - Ohlins R&T on my previous vehicles are kind of at that limit of what you might be happy with street and track. I'm in my 40's now so maybe my tolerance is less but I love PASM on the street and on track PASM sport is just shy of what I would prefer, but plan to deal with it for the street perfection of PASM. R&T probably a good thing to try, likely slightly more aggressive spring rates than PASM and probably X73 also.
(3) Seating - This is a hard one. I have had race seats and Cobra Nogaros in prior cars. Both ultimately did not meet my comfort requirements on the street. Both were also fabulous on track. I am now in Sports Seats Plus with a CG Lock (keeps you from sliding forward on hard braking). For me this is perfection and still have the side airbags. If my car didn't come with these seats I would probably try to find some or go Recaro Sportster with a CG Lock. Good compromise setup for dual duty. LWBS to me personally are not comfortable enough on the street but I know folks have differing opinions on this.
Okay, last thing for now, I just tried out EBC RP-1 track pads and they are pretty good on track and totally silent on the street. Have never had any decent track pad that was also silent and functional on the street, I'm quite surprised and now plan to run RP-1's full time.
Good luck with your plans and let us know if any more questions.
(1) Wheels/Tires - PS4S are actually a fantastic tire for dual duty, so long as you are content with the tire then I'd stick with it. If you start to destroy your PS4S too quickly on track though, then you should probably consider buying both street and track wheel sets. Then you can also grab some stickier 200tw tires that likely wouldn't have the same comfort as PS4S on the street.
(2) Suspension - Ohlins R&T on my previous vehicles are kind of at that limit of what you might be happy with street and track. I'm in my 40's now so maybe my tolerance is less but I love PASM on the street and on track PASM sport is just shy of what I would prefer, but plan to deal with it for the street perfection of PASM. R&T probably a good thing to try, likely slightly more aggressive spring rates than PASM and probably X73 also.
(3) Seating - This is a hard one. I have had race seats and Cobra Nogaros in prior cars. Both ultimately did not meet my comfort requirements on the street. Both were also fabulous on track. I am now in Sports Seats Plus with a CG Lock (keeps you from sliding forward on hard braking). For me this is perfection and still have the side airbags. If my car didn't come with these seats I would probably try to find some or go Recaro Sportster with a CG Lock. Good compromise setup for dual duty. LWBS to me personally are not comfortable enough on the street but I know folks have differing opinions on this.
Okay, last thing for now, I just tried out EBC RP-1 track pads and they are pretty good on track and totally silent on the street. Have never had any decent track pad that was also silent and functional on the street, I'm quite surprised and now plan to run RP-1's full time.
Good luck with your plans and let us know if any more questions.
02-26-2024, 04:29 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
Here's my set-up...
I use Sparco QRT-R seats, Competition Motorsport roll bar and Sabelt 6 points. With BBi seat bases, it is a modular seat and harness unit that comes in and out of the car fairly easily for when I want to put the factory seats back in. For street driving with the Sparcos, I just let the shoulder harnesses hang down the front of the carpeted engine panel from the roll bar, tuck away the lap belts and remove the crotch belts so that the buckle is not in the way or flopping around (they have the snap buckles that attach to the BBi seat base). These seats aren't that hard to get in and out of and we are fit, slender 60+ yr olds. I find them easier to get out of than the Porsche factory lightweight buckets.
I use Sparco QRT-R seats, Competition Motorsport roll bar and Sabelt 6 points. With BBi seat bases, it is a modular seat and harness unit that comes in and out of the car fairly easily for when I want to put the factory seats back in. For street driving with the Sparcos, I just let the shoulder harnesses hang down the front of the carpeted engine panel from the roll bar, tuck away the lap belts and remove the crotch belts so that the buckle is not in the way or flopping around (they have the snap buckles that attach to the BBi seat base). These seats aren't that hard to get in and out of and we are fit, slender 60+ yr olds. I find them easier to get out of than the Porsche factory lightweight buckets.
Last edited by jfpell; 02-26-2024 at 07:49 PM. Reason: correcting grammar
02-26-2024, 04:42 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
(1) Wheels/Tires - PS4S are actually a fantastic tire for dual duty, so long as you are content with the tire then I'd stick with it. If you start to destroy your PS4S too quickly on track though, then you should probably consider buying both street and track wheel sets. Then you can also grab some stickier 200tw tires that likely wouldn't have the same comfort as PS4S on the street.
(2) Suspension - Ohlins R&T on my previous vehicles are kind of at that limit of what you might be happy with street and track. I'm in my 40's now so maybe my tolerance is less but I love PASM on the street and on track PASM sport is just shy of what I would prefer, but plan to deal with it for the street perfection of PASM. R&T probably a good thing to try, likely slightly more aggressive spring rates than PASM and probably X73 also.
(3) Seating - This is a hard one. I have had race seats and Cobra Nogaros in prior cars. Both ultimately did not meet my comfort requirements on the street. Both were also fabulous on track. I am now in Sports Seats Plus with a CG Lock (keeps you from sliding forward on hard braking). For me this is perfection and still have the side airbags. If my car didn't come with these seats I would probably try to find some or go Recaro Sportster with a CG Lock. Good compromise setup for dual duty.
I use Sparco QRT-R seats, Competition Motorsport roll bar and Sabelt 6 points. With BBi seat bases, it is a modular seat and harness unit that comes in and out of the car fairly easily for when I want to put the factory seats back in. For street driving with the Sparcos, I just let the shoulder harnesses hang down the front of the carpeted engine panel from the roll bar, tuck away the lap belts and remove the crotch belts so that the buckle is not in the way or flopping around (they have the snap buckles that attach to the BBi seat base). These seats aren't that hard to get in and out of and we are in fit / slender 60+ yr olds. I find them easier to get out of than the Porsche factory lightweight buckets.
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Macduff (02-27-2024)
02-26-2024, 04:59 PM
#6
I have a 981 Cayman that is a second car so not daily driver but I do drive it around for fun on the weekends when I am not at the track. What I did is to install a CMS half cage / harness bar with 6 point harness and a Sparco race seat. What I do is install the race seat for track events then swap back in stock seats once the track day is over- takes about 15 minutes and is pretty easy. By doing that, you get the best of both worlds. When the race seat is properly installed with correct 3 point belt routing, it is safe on the street and then will also allow you to use the harness on the track
02-26-2024, 05:04 PM
#8
I've got a lot of thoughts here, bare with me! Have been tracking for ~12 years and have bought, modded, tracked, parted-out, and then sold many many a car. This includes a time when my car was also my daily though I do have an suv to daily now. For at least two cars I over-modded on the track side, including putting in race seats and a harness bar + harnesses. Went through many racey suspension setups as well. I learned a lot doing all of this and don't regret it but each time I went too far I found I stopped enjoying the car on the street. Had some truly epic and amazing track days but then life, kids, etc. and realized I wasn't going to the track as much as I wanted to do. Having a car that sits in the garage or wherever most of the time when you only have 1-2 vehicles is kind of a waste IMO. With my latest 981 S purchase, I feel this is a design point that requires very little to be amazing BOTH on the street and at the track. It took me awhile to realize what I was after and it took a lot of prior modding and learning to get to this point. Now though, I finally have a car that works to my satisfaction in both scenarios. A few things that I think help this and let me address some of your wants here.
(1) Wheels/Tires - PS4S are actually a fantastic tire for dual duty, so long as you are content with the tire then I'd stick with it. If you start to destroy your PS4S too quickly on track though, then you should probably consider buying both street and track wheel sets. Then you can also grab some stickier 200tw tires that likely wouldn't have the same comfort as PS4S on the street.
(2) Suspension - Ohlins R&T on my previous vehicles are kind of at that limit of what you might be happy with street and track. I'm in my 40's now so maybe my tolerance is less but I love PASM on the street and on track PASM sport is just shy of what I would prefer, but plan to deal with it for the street perfection of PASM. R&T probably a good thing to try, likely slightly more aggressive spring rates than PASM and probably X73 also.
(3) Seating - This is a hard one. I have had race seats and Cobra Nogaros in prior cars. Both ultimately did not meet my comfort requirements on the street. Both were also fabulous on track. I am now in Sports Seats Plus with a CG Lock (keeps you from sliding forward on hard braking). For me this is perfection and still have the side airbags. If my car didn't come with these seats I would probably try to find some or go Recaro Sportster with a CG Lock. Good compromise setup for dual duty. LWBS to me personally are not comfortable enough on the street but I know folks have differing opinions on this.
Okay, last thing for now, I just tried out EBC RP-1 track pads and they are pretty good on track and totally silent on the street. Have never had any decent track pad that was also silent and functional on the street, I'm quite surprised and now plan to run RP-1's full time.
Good luck with your plans and let us know if any more questions.
(1) Wheels/Tires - PS4S are actually a fantastic tire for dual duty, so long as you are content with the tire then I'd stick with it. If you start to destroy your PS4S too quickly on track though, then you should probably consider buying both street and track wheel sets. Then you can also grab some stickier 200tw tires that likely wouldn't have the same comfort as PS4S on the street.
(2) Suspension - Ohlins R&T on my previous vehicles are kind of at that limit of what you might be happy with street and track. I'm in my 40's now so maybe my tolerance is less but I love PASM on the street and on track PASM sport is just shy of what I would prefer, but plan to deal with it for the street perfection of PASM. R&T probably a good thing to try, likely slightly more aggressive spring rates than PASM and probably X73 also.
(3) Seating - This is a hard one. I have had race seats and Cobra Nogaros in prior cars. Both ultimately did not meet my comfort requirements on the street. Both were also fabulous on track. I am now in Sports Seats Plus with a CG Lock (keeps you from sliding forward on hard braking). For me this is perfection and still have the side airbags. If my car didn't come with these seats I would probably try to find some or go Recaro Sportster with a CG Lock. Good compromise setup for dual duty. LWBS to me personally are not comfortable enough on the street but I know folks have differing opinions on this.
Okay, last thing for now, I just tried out EBC RP-1 track pads and they are pretty good on track and totally silent on the street. Have never had any decent track pad that was also silent and functional on the street, I'm quite surprised and now plan to run RP-1's full time.
Good luck with your plans and let us know if any more questions.
I’m on the fence between keeping stock PASM, adding DSC V3, or “springing” for Ohlins R&T. Mine will be 90% track duty but still want to enjoy driving to the track.
What else have you done or recommend for the suspension bits? I.e. control arms, toe links, steering rods, sway bars, alignment, etc?
How do the EBC RP-1 compare on the track to more popular track pads like Pagid RSL29, PFC 08, Ferodo 1.11/3.12, etc?
Where can I get a CG Lock???
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Macduff (02-27-2024)
02-26-2024, 05:05 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
What I did is to install a CMS half cage / harness bar with 6 point harness and a Sparco race seat. What I do is install the race seat for track events then swap back in stock seats once the track day is over- takes about 15 minutes and is pretty easy. By doing that, you get the best of both worlds. When the race seat is properly installed with correct 3 point belt routing, it is safe on the street and then will also allow you to use the harness on the track
02-26-2024, 06:39 PM
#10
Here's my set-up...
I use Sparco QRT-R seats, Competition Motorsport roll bar and Sabelt 6 points. With BBi seat bases, it is a modular seat and harness unit that comes in and out of the car fairly easily for when I want to put the factory seats back in. For street driving with the Sparcos, I just let the shoulder harnesses hang down the front of the carpeted engine panel from the roll bar, tuck away the lap belts and remove the crotch belts so that the buckle is not in the way or flopping around (they have the snap buckles that attach to the BBi seat base). These seats aren't that hard to get in and out of and we are in fit / slender 60+ yr olds. I find them easier to get out of than the Porsche factory lightweight buckets.
I use Sparco QRT-R seats, Competition Motorsport roll bar and Sabelt 6 points. With BBi seat bases, it is a modular seat and harness unit that comes in and out of the car fairly easily for when I want to put the factory seats back in. For street driving with the Sparcos, I just let the shoulder harnesses hang down the front of the carpeted engine panel from the roll bar, tuck away the lap belts and remove the crotch belts so that the buckle is not in the way or flopping around (they have the snap buckles that attach to the BBi seat base). These seats aren't that hard to get in and out of and we are in fit / slender 60+ yr olds. I find them easier to get out of than the Porsche factory lightweight buckets.
Last edited by dps214; 02-26-2024 at 06:40 PM.
02-26-2024, 07:37 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
I've got the street seats in it now, so I can only provide a written description. I have an event in mid-April and I'll post up some pictures then.
For the QRT-R seats, I bought some GT2 seat belt receptacles from Suncoast Parts that have a longer cable as compared to the stock seatbelt receptacles from the mounting point on the seat base. This puts the buckle receptacle at the top edge of the side bolster and seems to work fine. I originally had the receptacle coming through the lap belt hole of the Sparco seat but it poked me in the kidney when getting in and made connecting the lap belt harness a pain.
It take a little experimentation to make everything fit the way you want but fortunately Brey-Krause makes and sells all kinds of widgets to make harness and seat belts co-exist peacefully.
For the QRT-R seats, I bought some GT2 seat belt receptacles from Suncoast Parts that have a longer cable as compared to the stock seatbelt receptacles from the mounting point on the seat base. This puts the buckle receptacle at the top edge of the side bolster and seems to work fine. I originally had the receptacle coming through the lap belt hole of the Sparco seat but it poked me in the kidney when getting in and made connecting the lap belt harness a pain.
It take a little experimentation to make everything fit the way you want but fortunately Brey-Krause makes and sells all kinds of widgets to make harness and seat belts co-exist peacefully.
02-26-2024, 07:53 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
Do you have any pictures you can share? And are you swapping seats for track meets, or do you leave them in? I'm definitely not looking forward to seat swaps, even wheel swaps seems kind of daunting / headache.
I'll post some pictures when I put the race seats back in. If I have multiple events within a month period or so, I leave the race seats in. If I have a span of 2 months or longer, I'll put the factory seats in (or not). I chose the most daily livable race seats that I could find for when I'm too lazy to do the swapping.
I'll post some pictures when I put the race seats back in. If I have multiple events within a month period or so, I leave the race seats in. If I have a span of 2 months or longer, I'll put the factory seats in (or not). I chose the most daily livable race seats that I could find for when I'm too lazy to do the swapping.
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Ziggmeister (02-26-2024)
02-27-2024, 08:04 AM
#13
Rennlist Member
(1) Wheels/Tires - PS4S are actually a fantastic tire for dual duty, so long as you are content with the tire then I'd stick with it. If you start to destroy your PS4S too quickly on track though, then you should probably consider buying both street and track wheel sets. Then you can also grab some stickier 200tw tires that likely wouldn't have the same comfort as PS4S on the street.
(2) Suspension - Ohlins R&T on my previous vehicles are kind of at that limit of what you might be happy with street and track. I'm in my 40's now so maybe my tolerance is less but I love PASM on the street and on track PASM sport is just shy of what I would prefer, but plan to deal with it for the street perfection of PASM. R&T probably a good thing to try, likely slightly more aggressive spring rates than PASM and probably X73 also.
Can you do PASM and X73 ? I've gone down the rabbit hole on suspension as well. Gets very expensive in a hurry. Need Lower control arms to get enough camber at lower heights and toe arms as well. If PASM works decently enough I'd just leave it alone. Maybe stiffer sway bars.
(3) Seating - This is a hard one. I have had race seats and Cobra Nogaros in prior cars. Both ultimately did not meet my comfort requirements on the street. Both were also fabulous on track. I am now in Sports Seats Plus with a CG Lock (keeps you from sliding forward on hard braking). For me this is perfection and still have the side airbags. If my car didn't come with these seats I would probably try to find some or go Recaro Sportster with a CG Lock. Good compromise setup for dual duty. LWBS to me personally are not comfortable enough on the street but I know folks have differing opinions on this.
I used to swap seats, but it gets old in a hurry. Also I'm not as strong as I once was and the stock seats are heavy.
Okay, last thing for now, I just tried out EBC RP-1 track pads and they are pretty good on track and totally silent on the street. Have never had any decent track pad that was also silent and functional on the street, I'm quite surprised and now plan to run RP-1's full time.
I used to swap pads on my 987, but much harder to do on the 981
Good luck with your plans and let us know if any more questions.
02-27-2024, 10:17 AM
#14
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Here's my set-up...
I use Sparco QRT-R seats, Competition Motorsport roll bar and Sabelt 6 points. With BBi seat bases, it is a modular seat and harness unit that comes in and out of the car fairly easily for when I want to put the factory seats back in. For street driving with the Sparcos, I just let the shoulder harnesses hang down the front of the carpeted engine panel from the roll bar, tuck away the lap belts and remove the crotch belts so that the buckle is not in the way or flopping around (they have the snap buckles that attach to the BBi seat base). These seats aren't that hard to get in and out of and we are fit, slender 60+ yr olds. I find them easier to get out of than the Porsche factory lightweight buckets.
I use Sparco QRT-R seats, Competition Motorsport roll bar and Sabelt 6 points. With BBi seat bases, it is a modular seat and harness unit that comes in and out of the car fairly easily for when I want to put the factory seats back in. For street driving with the Sparcos, I just let the shoulder harnesses hang down the front of the carpeted engine panel from the roll bar, tuck away the lap belts and remove the crotch belts so that the buckle is not in the way or flopping around (they have the snap buckles that attach to the BBi seat base). These seats aren't that hard to get in and out of and we are fit, slender 60+ yr olds. I find them easier to get out of than the Porsche factory lightweight buckets.
981 Bolt in four point
Lifeline 6 point harnesses on sale for only $199
Race Seats (we have 100's of the new 2029's in stock and still a few 2028's from Sparco, Sabelt and Racetech if you want to save some $$$)
All-in-one CMS seat mount
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rr_gts (02-27-2024)
02-27-2024, 01:48 PM
#15
Excellent insight and advice!
I’m on the fence between keeping stock PASM, adding DSC V3, or “springing” for Ohlins R&T. Mine will be 90% track duty but still want to enjoy driving to the track.
What else have you done or recommend for the suspension bits? I.e. control arms, toe links, steering rods, sway bars, alignment, etc?
How do the EBC RP-1 compare on the track to more popular track pads like Pagid RSL29, PFC 08, Ferodo 1.11/3.12, etc?
Where can I get a CG Lock???
I’m on the fence between keeping stock PASM, adding DSC V3, or “springing” for Ohlins R&T. Mine will be 90% track duty but still want to enjoy driving to the track.
What else have you done or recommend for the suspension bits? I.e. control arms, toe links, steering rods, sway bars, alignment, etc?
How do the EBC RP-1 compare on the track to more popular track pads like Pagid RSL29, PFC 08, Ferodo 1.11/3.12, etc?
Where can I get a CG Lock???
So I literally just got my car a few weeks ago and have not messed with the suspension yet. I have done all the things you've mentioned to prior non-Porsche cars though and they made a world of difference on those cars. With the Cayman, it's already pretty dialed (70-80% if what I felt those types of parts did on prior vehicles). I am sure I will research and install some of these parts and will be sure to post about it when I do. Sorry I don't have more to offer there.
Regarding brake pads I have tried all of the above and the main thing for me with pads is to try and match pads/tires/suspension. For these RP-1's I would say they are most comparable to PFC08's from your list and would likely match best with street tires or 200tw category tires. They are a bit lower friction rate than I'd prefer, lower than Pagid yellows for example, but they did not fade and did not pad-deposit my rotors in any way. Their street silence and negating the need for me to swap pads is worth it for me to stick with them even though I'd prefer the initial bite and friction levels of the Pagid yellows for example. I have also tried much more aggressive (higher friction) pads with firm suspension and slicks but that would not match well with my current softer suspension and less grippy tires.
For a 90% track duty car I think Ohlins R&T and the presumably higher spring rates would be a good path.
@davecramer re PASM and X73, apologies if what I said was confusing. I just meant that I suspect the Ohlins R&T default springs are likely stiffer spring rates than either of those options. I'm pretty sure X73 is static and not an electronic damper like PASM.
Generally speaking, stiffer spring rates on the street mean you feel the bumps, ruts and potholes more. Been there many times and loving the PASM presently.
Last edited by Macduff; 02-27-2024 at 01:49 PM.
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rr_gts (02-27-2024)