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Is this the new normal?

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Old 04-25-2023, 09:58 AM
  #16  
DrewM
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Originally Posted by jwalz1
Most shops will advise against it (profit motive?) but I have been told by a couple owners to just use a thin layer of the copper anti-seize if you plan to go longer intervals with fewer miles.
This is some very old advice done back 'in the day' and is not applicable to modern cars/plugs, modern plugs basically have 'anti seize' built in, the plating used is anti-corrosive/etc. Using anti-seize can severely knock your torque specs out of whack, and you have a much higher chance of over-torquing and stripping the plug holes.

The maintanance recommendations are excessive but not crazy so. Something to get used to on vehicles that don't get driven very often is that you have time-based limits as well, belts still degrade even if they aren't spinning around, other rubber components degrade with time, etc. Spark plugs are recommended because they will eventually seize in place, so taking them out is good practice, and you may as well put new ones in. And on it goes. The water pump is another spot, it seems excessive, but the pump/impeller is sitting in water all the time, things degrade and start to go bad - the other angle is that you are already doing a bunch of labor to get to the belts, replacing the water pump at that point doesn't add a ton of cost...even worse is if it fails you'll be opening up and replacing all of those components again. IIRS water pumps are recommended to be replaced every 5-6 years or so?

And definitely find a good independent shop, ask around, use your local PCA resources if you are a member, the dealer service department is going to be VERY expensive (they have to pay for a LOT of extra stuff), there are almost always good indy shops around that can do quality work.

But don't skimp on the work, the difference between a top dollar cream puff car and a car that becomes an unreliable nightmare starts with doing all this kind of stuff (unfortunately).
Old 04-25-2023, 10:45 AM
  #17  
colnagoG60
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Originally Posted by Strat_928
40k for plugs is the standard for this model, but 25k is pretty low. So probably a little leeway there to work with...
Fair enough, but some people live in more humid/salty/corrosive environments than others.
Old 04-25-2023, 01:25 PM
  #18  
Kitc2246
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As recommended earlier, find a good Indy who works on P cars. If you have a local PCA club check their adds and who does the DE inspections.

As others have stated doing the plug at 4 years is a seizing issue. That said I've stretched two Boxsters to 6 years with no issues. The potential seizing is a function of heat cycles, the miles and/or time. As also stated new Bosch plugs have anti-seizing plating on the threads. No need to buy "Porsche" plugs. I would not use anti-seize compound. Porsche stopped using it on plugs and wheel lugs when they discovered damage from over torqueing. Surprised they didn't recommend changing the coil packs. I have 911 coil pack heat shield with 35K on the original coil packs with 30+ track days and no issues. If you do the coil packs it's no additional labor.

IMO changing the plugs is far from an easy DIY especially from the ground. I track my Boxster S and while it has very low mileage I do the plugs at 4 years, oil after 4-5 events and PDK fluid and diff every two years.

I will have to look at dropping the heads to make it easier. In the process of moving, a Quick-Jack is in the future. If someone does that method highly recommend adding the 911 coil pack heat shields, otherwise they are a very tight fit.

Doing the water pump, tensioner and pulley is just BS. There is no evidence that 981 water pumps fail early and need preemptively replaced. If you DIY the serpentine belt hand spin the two pulleys. Watch the YouTubes and don't drop the spacer bolt. In fact order a spare bolt if you plan to DIY the belt.

The one thing I still DIY is rotors and brake pads. I order from FCPEuro and on my third set of Sebro slotted fronts. Use Pagid Yellow (RSL-29) pads. They start to squeak on the street when the transfer layer from bedding wears off. Definitely install brake caliper studs if you plan on tracking. Too easy to damage the aluminum threads with the steel brake caliper bolts.

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Old 04-25-2023, 06:41 PM
  #19  
DrewM
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Originally Posted by Kitc2246
I will have to look at dropping the heads to make it easier. In the process of moving, a Quick-Jack is in the future. If someone does that method highly recommend adding the 911 coil pack heat shields, otherwise they are a very tight fit.
I know I'm preaching to the choir, but I picked up a QuickJack recently and it's a game changer for any kind of DIY work. I went back-n-forth on getting one for years, it's very pricey, doesn't get much higher than jack stands, etc. But I finally did it and now kick myself I didn't do it sooner. I can get the car nearly 2ft in the air within about 10 minutes any time I want, it makes any under-car work much easier, I don't have to worry about weird angles by using ramps (you don't get all the oil out of the car if you use ramps as an example), etc. And it's much more steady than using jack stands at that height.

Originally Posted by Kitc2246
Doing the water pump, tensioner and pulley is just BS. There is no evidence that 981 water pumps fail early and need preemptively replaced. If you DIY the serpentine belt hand spin the two pulleys. Watch the YouTubes and don't drop the spacer bolt. In fact order a spare bolt if you plan to DIY the belt.
LN engineering and there was an article in Excellence some time back about doing the pump around the 4-5yr mark. Here is the LN web piece on it - Water Pump Kits for Porsche Boxster, Cayman, and 911 Models (lnengineering.com) - It does sound excessive, but the risk to the engine in case of a failure is a bit high. The rollers are excessive for sure (as that is an almost 100% wear item - unless you live in a corrosive area) but likely pretty cheap and it is simple insurance/while you're in there kind of stuff. The newest 981 is getting to be 8yrs old at this point, if I were doing a belt today I'd probably do the pump at this point...even if I thought the above was overly conservative (which it probably is), the chance of having a failure before the next time you need to change out the belt is going to be higher...which means you'll be duplicating a lot of labor - similar to the Transaxle folks who do a water pump with every timing belt, it's not because the pumps are bad...but the cost/labor/risk works out in a way that it makes sense to change it.

Originally Posted by Kitc2246
The one thing I still DIY is rotors and brake pads. I order from FCPEuro and on my third set of Sebro slotted fronts. Use Pagid Yellow (RSL-29) pads. They start to squeak on the street when the transfer layer from bedding wears off. Definitely install brake caliper studs if you plan on tracking. Too easy to damage the aluminum threads with the steel brake caliper bolts.
And if you don't do studs the bolts holding the caliper to the spindle are a 1-time use bolt, I know a few folks who don't realize that. Also probably not a big deal in many cases, but it is there for a reason.
Old 04-25-2023, 07:23 PM
  #20  
Denny Swift
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Where I live, it's required by law for service shops to post their hourly rate. All the work you're listing is standard maintenance. Ask them to show you their calculations. Rate x time + parts = cost. Pretty simple. If they quote you more than 2 hours for plugs, for example, they either don't know what they are doing or they are thieves or both. IMO replacing the water pump so soon is ridiculous. However, if they only charge you the actual price of the pump and no additional labor beyond the labor to replace the belt (or maybe another 30 minutes), I'd laugh in their face.

On the other hand, I would not trust any independent shop unless they can prove that the guy who will work on your car has experience with your specific car. I think $200/ hour is reasonable. I do my own work. I'd charge you $300, unless you help
Then it would be $500.
Old 04-25-2023, 09:18 PM
  #21  
Kitc2246
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I respect LN Engineering but I think the marketing department is mixing facts. As I understand it the 9A1 water pump was improved. I believe the mileage recommendation to replace the water pump on earlier 986 and 987 was 50K. I've seen other threads that say "early" replacement of the water pump in the 981 is not needed.

Again, IMO replacing the water pump, tensioner and pulley for a 25K mileage 2014 Cayman S with no failure evidence is just greed on the dealers part.




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