Titanium5150

Again, "0-60" is so overrated. While electrified acceleration is entertaining, I would in no way be "gobsmacked" by it. But to each his own I suppose. I'll take a good old fashioned combustion engine where I can row my own gears any day of the week. Even if it is a painfully slow 5.7 0-60 time.

WenigerAberBeser

100% agree.

Kancamagus

The new 911 s and turbo are both over 3500lbs, with a less favorable polar moment. It will prolly have a lower CG as well... I think Porsche can figure out how to manage the additional weight reasonably well in the Boxster/Cayman platform. No, it wont be as tossable, or as good in transition, but I bet it will be faster in most applications.

garfunkle

it’s like looking at a political map. There are charging stations in red areas but not in blue areas. Blue areas make up the majority of US cities and don’t have infrastructure.

Charging time is based on charging time. Not for waiting in line or anything other than start to finish charging. Charging is not free and will have a charge similar to gas at some point soon.

thedude abides

The car world right now seems to be totally obsessed with drag races and 0-60 times, to the point where nothing else about the driving experience seems to matter except going fast in a straight line--it boggles my mind. One could argue that the 0-60 time of a car is its least important attribute.

I've driven the top of the line Model S (have yet to drive a Taycan) and yes--the acceleration is incredible. But after you've done the drag race thing a few times, it gets pretty old, mainly because it's such a small part of the overall driving experience, at least for me. The other 95% of the driving experience for me is engine noise, being intimately connected to the car by rowing my own gears--even working on and maintaining it. With EVs for me, the driving experience is totally soul-less because all of these areas are completely lacking.

For daily driving near a big city as a commuter car with lots of charging stations available, would I consider an EV? Sure. But for pure driving excitement, no way. And I have ZERO interest in the next generation electrified Boxsters/Caymans. That's why I will hang on to my 981 manual transmission Boxster S for as long as I can, because there is no better feeling than screaming around some twisties with the top down on a hot summer evening and that flat 6 wailing right behind me.

And no EV will ever replace that.

Kancamagus

If you dont think that a Boxster with 4WD, and close to double the torque, would be exciting because you cant “row your own”, or hear an exhaust note, then we can agree to disagree. I wasn’t focused on the 0-60 times of the Tesla either, I was imagining a Boxster with similar power delivery characteristics, which would impact performance in many other ways. Apparently Porsche’s target weight was 3550lbs. Think 991.2 S weight/performance without an exhaust note. Not exciting? Not as exciting as a 981? Really? It will be interesting to see if anyone’s perspective changes in the next 5 years...

WenigerAberBeser

Well, I absolutely disagree with you...

- RWD > 4WD when it comes to fun sports cars
- 6MT > Flappy Paddle > Single gear tranny
- Exhaust note (especially in a vert) is a HUGE requirement for drama / excitement
- 3,550+ lbs is a FATASS for a 2 seat roadster (ppl have just gotten used to accept heavy sports cars). My 987.2 Spyder is ~700LBS LESS... imagine slinging 700 lbs more around on anything
- More power / faster does not always equal more fun.... my 991.2 GT3 was PDK and super quick, but the Spyder is more fun and slower

The idea of a small, electric sports car is not even novel, Tesla's 1st gen roadster was basically a gutted lotus elise/exige... Porsche might execute it better but it nothing new

thedude abides

I 100% agree, especially with your last bullet point.
Not saying that EVs are not fun at all, they are just not for me. Nearly all of my enjoyment with my 981 BS comes from the visceral connection I have with the car, how it makes me FEEL. Perhaps some day I'll have the same feeling with an EV, just not now.
I just hope that in the next 20-30 years, there will still be folks around who can work on Porsche ICE cars and parts are still available! As long as these options aren't totally eliminated before I perish, I'm good!

xsbank

I think electric cars are a flash in the pan. Certainly Tesla and now Porsche have produced interesting examples that are very zoomy and innovative, but my experience with an electric car was abysmal. I bought a new BMW i3 to putter about in and the steering would fail to jerky and notchy and become very difficult to turn the wheel (steering systems are new technology, BMW just figured out how to do it). It went back to the dealer on a flatbed truck 3x. Eventually they told me it would be three months before the software patch was ready from the factory (slow typists in Germany) and would I like a courtesy car? I started to agitate for a replacement and eventually they called and they had a new sportier i3 to replace it. I also found the "emergency charger" had been dumbed down from my original car to one that took 56 hours to charge from 1/4 battery at 120 volts. How useful is that? A home charger, boosted in price by the current government subsidy, would have been 2000 installed (2 boat dollars) and the car would still take a coon's age to charge. The public chargers...I went to visit a friend and in his town they listed 6 high-speed chargers, 5 of them were u/s. How long do you think it would take to get to my spot at the charger, for my allotted 30 mins?

I sold it. Total waste of money and time, not worth the trouble. If this will work, it's far too soon unless somebody gives you one.
Electric cars do not run on electricity, they run on subsidies.

WenigerAberBeser

sounds like you got a lemon that happened to be an EV. I agree infrastructure isn’t ideal for most. Especially for sports cars.

I live in DFW and it’s pretty common to do 200-300 miles of enthusiast driving in the area on an outing. I doubt a small platform like a boxster could do more than 125 miles of enthusiast driving. So I would be way behind my friends driving ICE haha

CaymanCarver

A neighbor of mine drives huge miles every week for work. He tried a Tesla Model S and ended up returning it after 2 weeks.
He discovered the harsh reality of the charging infrastructure in Southern California. Said even if he could get to a rapid charging station there was usually a significant wait in line.
Then he took my advice and got a slightly used Panamera S. Problem solved.

I'm very glad for the EV's as an option and even more glad they're now being owned ..as opposed to a Lease ..but I agree the power infrastructure just isn't there yet.

thedude abides

Interesting. One would think that CA would lead the nation in availability of EV charging infrastructure. I can imagine much of the rest of the country is even further behind than CA in this regard.

I keep hearing that EVs “are the future” and see that nearly all major manufacturers are producing at least one EV model. But without readily available, easy to use, fast infrastructure, this will be a hard sell.

Unless, of course, if consumers are forced out of our ICE vehicles by government regulations that effectively destroy the petroleum industry in this country so that gas becomes as expensive as it is in Europe. But that would never happen...right??

Kancamagus

There are many research papers (an example below) dealing with advanced torque distribution strategies that are enabled by 4WD electric vehicles. The dynamic performance implications of the development of these algorithms is significant. Yes the car will be heavier, but it will have a bag of tricks that is just not possible with current technology. If Porsche has taught us anything, it is the value of controlling vehicle dynamics. The new degrees of freedom, relative to dynamic control, delivered by electrification could end up being a huge benefit.


https://res.mdpi.com/d_attachment/we...j-05-00617.pdf

Kancamagus

Let the flames begin

[img]blob:https://rennlist.com/154172ed-e73e-4a8d-8ee2-bbfa8f44d934[/img]


Not sure why i cant load this image of the 2023 Boxster...

WenigerAberBeser

ok, this is the exact opposite of what I want in a fun sports car... more electro-nannies interfering with driving.

the paper is basically saying that EVs allow for computerized torque vectoring at each wheel if the EV has 4WD. Instead of focusing on improving mass distribution and suspension setup, 4WD EVs can ‘cheat’ their way to better performance by computerized nannies.

How is that more fun for street driving?

could have applications in racing but 99% of these cars mainly see backroads and around town driving.