Archimedes

Sorry but anyone who doesn’t have a bias will watch that video and conclude the Carrera is the better car in every respect. Just look at how much more composed it is on turn in and through the corner.

And again, the comment I was responding to was that the Spyder is a higher performing sports car than the Carrera. It simply isn’t. I had a 991S and a 981 Spyder at the same time, and down my favorite twisty road my Carrera was the faster, more stable, more confidence inspiring car. More power, more grip and better chassis. I prefer the Spyder, but it would lose a race to my Carrera S all day and twice on Sunday.

Schmidts Cat

The rear engine has its advantages! But the mid does too....

Marine Blue

Let’s be frank, a mid engine car will handle better than a rear engine car if both cars were provided equal power and equal suspension development. The 911 performs better than the Boxster/Cayman because Porsche spends more time developing the suspension and gives it more power. If this wasn’t a fact why wouldn’t Porsche have built the Carrera GT, 918 Spyder and the majority of their more recent race cars with a rear engine layout?

Taxdr1965

Ok guys didn’t mean to create a firestorm. Think I might go with a 911. What do u guys think a used 2013 911 Carrera S Cab with 13k on the clock is worth? Original msrp 144k. Not cpo.

garfunkle

75-80K

There's nothing wrong with that and you'll love it. In 2 days I'll have both. The 991.1S Cab is my favorite car. Period. But I think I am going to like driving my 987.2s more.

fast1

I have no idea what it's worth, but dealers in MD would have an asking price in the low to mid $80Ks.

hf1

991 cab will feel like a boat on backroads compared to any Boxster especially 987 which will feel wrapped around you like a tight track suit in comparison.

Boxster looks much better than any 911 cab. It’s the Porsche convertible to get.

No one cares which is faster on backroads. Your lunch, coffee, or friends will be there whenever you arrive.

I love my 996 GT3 but would never choose it as a convertible. It is also much smaller than a 991.

If you couldn’t care less about Porsche marketing (Kool Aid) and about signalling success and manliness, get a Boxster.

MidEngineRules

I also had a 981 Spyder. The only reason the Carrera S would best it was due to the Spyder's tall gearing, which really takes the oomph out of the car. Braking should go to the Spyder considering they are the same exact brakes and the Spyder weighs much less, but the extra rubber on the Carrera gives it a lot more friction to work with. My Spyder had PZeros, which were terrible. I often wonder with better rubber would the Spyder grip like you would expect it to. Mine had a lot of trouble with grip but then again I live in a State with relatively slick roads. My GT4 has Michelin Cup 2s and PCCB and will out perform my 991.2 4S except in a drag race. The reality is that this hair splitting is only valid when driving these cars at 10/10ths. If you're just out having spirited fun the Boxster should entertain you more, perhaps unless you're a size XL.

BTW, I'm confident my old Cayman R would beat that base Carrera.

garfunkle

Why does everyone keep ignoring the rear suspension? It's not the gearing - which is also long in the Carrera. It's not the power - since the delta is so small and the boxster weighs less. The 911 rear suspension is engineered to work with the rear weight bias. A 997 handled better than a 987 and a 991 better than a 981 or 718. The 991 hardly behaves like a rear engine car at all... The money and engineering spend fixing this is the reason.

Case in point... the GT2 is the one with all the lap records, even above the 7 figure, mid engine 918. If we play the game that "if this then that" then we're no longer comparing the cars as they are and there is an endless back and forth of what ifs.

MidEngineRules

Of course Porsche has put a lot of engineering into the rear of a 911 since it used to kill people, but while the base Carrera takes advantage of more rubber and a wider stance it doesn't have RAS or PDCC which really help the car turn. GT cars are different altogether. I would hope you get more engineering with twice the price. Keep in mind Porsche built the brand on mid engine race cars. The most significant race cars are mid engine and for good reason. Even DTM "saloons" are mid engine yet still look like the front engine production cars they represent. Having so much weight over the rear is great for traction but not corner speed. When I see a rear engine prototype win at Le Mans you can celebrate.

There is quite a bit of power difference in 981s versus 991s. HP figures from Porsche are pure marketing. I owned both a '12 Cayman R and a '14 Cayman S. Porsche claims a 5 HP difference (330 versus 325 respectively). Felt like a 50 hp difference in the Cayman R's favor. The R also had the better suspension, LSD, more power and lighter weight. So when you compare a 981 Boxster S at 315 hp and a Carrera at 350 HP, first don't believe the HP figures. Second, realize Porsche put a smaller throttle body on the 981's 3.4l than they did on the Carrera 3.4l. More air volume makes quite a big difference in power and throttle response across the entire rev range, not just in peak power numbers. The Carrera with it's more effective and powerful motor, much bigger brakes and wider stance/rubber is easily worth the 1 second difference, which to me considering those differences is nothing. If the base Carrera was so superior it would be seconds quicker. The fact Porsche put PDCC on the base Carrera for their Nurburgring lap time tells you they were concerned about it.

The GT2 is only on top because Porsche wants it there. Anytime Porsche wants to put something else on top they will. And Porsche has a history of gaming Nurburgring times. Take a box stock GT2 right off a showroom floor, same driver, same day, and I bet it won't come close to the GT2 they used to set the ring record. If they wanted a 918 on top again, they'd just do it. Porsche also leaves time on the table so they keep incrementally making progress. All ring laps are considered driven "in a safe manner". When they achieve the time they set out for, they quit.

I've owned 3 911s. I thought after I sold my 997.2 S I'd never buy another one. Now I have a 991.2 4S (wife's car) along with the GT4. When I want to have fun I drive the GT4, inferior rear suspension and all.

garfunkle

All these justifications don't change the fact that a 911 is faster than a same gen boxster/cayman. Qualifying the delta in any way is just ignorant... if the X car has Y then I will retort with the A car has B. It's a pointless exercise. Bottom line is that the Boxster/Cayman is not better in any objective performance metric to a 911.

We also agree that the mid engine platform feels more fun

Archimedes

That's simply not true as a blanket statement. There are inherent advantages to a mid engine car, but there's so much more to designing a car than just power, suspension and engine location. You think that if they moved the engine of a Dodge Demon to the middle and gave it great suspension, it would run rings around every front/rear engine car with less power?

We're not comparing hypothetical identical cars. We're comparing the 911 Carrera S to the 981 Spyder, and the idea that the Spyder is the more capable car is simply not true.

Archimedes

Again, I owned both at the same time and drove them back to back down the same mountain roads. The gearing is inconsequential. The problem is a) the Spyder has a huge grip disadvantage, not just because of the narrower rubber but due to the lack of weight over the rear axle, and b) the Carrera just turns in better and carries more mid corner and exit speed. And it is much more composed doing it and easier to drive fast. This is not just my opinion. The Carrera S was almost 12 seconds faster than the Spyder around the Ring and it would be a much bigger gap if there were more slower corners like you find on a short track or on the street. The Spyder just cannot get the power down like the Carrera S.

Back to the OP's point, I'm talking about a well speccd (SPASM) tin top Carrera S, not a PASM Cab. If I were choosing a Spyder vs. a 991 Cab, I'd choose the Spyder all day.

Suitcase

I'm not sure that it "is" the greatest sports car ever made ('62-'64 GTO, 250 SWB, Mclaren F1, GT1 Strasse, NART Spider, etc.) but it's certainly up there and is without question the most accessible. I can't think of another $100k (or less) sports car anywhere that's as good or even close. BTW, I've never driven the previously mentioned "greatest" so I could be wrong.

MidEngineRules

Keep in mind the GT4 is also a Cayman. It beat the base 991 around Nurburgring by 13 seconds. Only 4 seconds down on a 991 S with PDK. PDK is easily worth a few seconds around the ring. The GT4 has the GT3 front end suspension, but not the back end. My point is Porsche figures out the pecking order for us. You can't blame any particular component of the car. These cars aren't allowed to be what engineering could achieve.