Vincent C.

find the flat black connector back behind the glove box, find the black and white wire that has power when you turn the key on, jump it to the black and red wire....thats all that needs to be done to get the car to run.....good luck.....vinnie

docmirror

I have no opinion on the directions from Ernie or anyone else except to say that the flat black connector does not come from the airbag controller. It is a slip on type with tab, the connectors to the airbag controller are camber lock metal latch with safety snap.

I guess try either/or, then sequential with both jumpers and see what you get. It can't hurt.

Cloud9...68

Hmmm... If that's the case, I've got a different problem, because I've done exactly that (minus confirming that the black and white wire actually has power), and the car is stone cold dead - an expensive paperweight.

It has power going to the DME, I've installed a different DME, checked the TPS, confirmed the connections of both 14-pin connectors I had to take apart to remove the engine, etc. This is why I think my problem has something to do with the air bag, because I removed not just the air bag module, but the air bag control module as well. If this isn't it, it's back to the drawing board...

docmirror

I would test with my car, but it's at the paint shop and not accessible now. The airbag module itself is quite discrete in operation. A fault will not disable the car, but a missing controller may, I haven't ever had reason to test it. The wiring from LK15 leads over to a pick line for the 15 circuit in the code plug. From there, I'm not bothering to chase where it goes. Maybe the pick line is just a presence detector for the controller, I don't know.

If you can borrow a controller and plug it back in that would help, but you'll need the controller module.

Cloud9...68

That's what I had thought too, but when I checked last night, I found that the flat 6-pin connector does in fact go to the air bag control module. So I'm pretty confused at the moment. Vinnie and Ernie say to jumper pins 3 and 4 of the flat 6-pin connector, and Doc Mirror and IMA Motorsport (I sold my ABCM to one of their employees) say to jumper a pair of pins in one of the connectors that goes directly into the ABCM (I had forgotten which pins IMA told me to jumper, and I haven't had any luck getting hold of them).

So, my plan is to remove the drivers air bag, confirm I'm getting a signal (+12V, I assume) at the socket of the flat 6-pin connector that the black/white wire goes into, and then start trying the different combinations of what people are suggesting. But I can say for sure that on my car in its current state, just jumpering the black/white and black/red wire of the flat 6-pin connector DOES NOT work.

Cloud9...68

As a back-up plan, I have a spare control module that somebody doesn't need on its way, but I won't get it for a few days, so I'm hoping I can find a combination of pins to jumper before then.

Cloud9...68

Vinnie - Question: Look at the pictures in my post from 7:50 PM last night. On your car, did you remove only the item in picture #1, or also the item in picture #4?

docmirror

OK, well then you have some optional airbag system I have no idea about. The airbag controller on my car has only the three(color coded) 12 pin, dual inline camber lock connectors, and no flat six pin. I guess I'm out. I was just working from what I fixed in my car, and the WSM dated in 1994.

Cloud9...68

That's interesting - I thought jumpering the flat 6-pin connector was SOP for anyone removing their passenger air bag module, so it seems very odd that your car doesn't have it. But I don't think your recommendations are off base at all, and they mesh with what Ivan from IMA Motorsport told me when I sold my ABCM to one of their employees. I just don't remember what he told me, and they haven't responded to my email inquiry, and haven't picked up the phone today. And the fact remains that on my car, jumpering the pins on the flat 6-pin connector has not helped. So, I'm going to go through your recommendations one by one and see if they bring this lifeless hunk of metal, rubber, and plastic back from the dead.

Edit: Doc - I just checked, and you're right, the flat six-pin connector, according to the wiring diagrams, appears to have only been used on 92's and 93's - it's not shown on the wiring diagram for 94's and 95's. On 92's (which is my model year) and 93's, it's on sheet 10, cell H97.

docmirror

Oh shyte, this is funny. We're talking about jumpering the same wires at a different connector! Pins 3 and 4 of T41(flat six pin) lead directly up to the airbag connector labelled 1, pins 11 and 12. Note that this connector is NOT an airbag connector, it's just a wire harness. Beer out the nose...

Like they said, make sure you're on the receptacle side of the flat six pin T41 that leads back into the harness. If unsure, jumper both sets. This will effectively jumper airbag connector pins 11 adn 12.

If you've already done this and are not getting spark, then you're gonna have to move on somewhere else. Maybe the crank pos sensor?

Cloud9...68

Crap! You're right - how did I not see that? - we've been talking about the same set of wires all along (their color should have been a dead giveaway ). So, I went ahead and checked for voltage at pin 3 of the side of the T41 connector that connects to the harness (the side with the female bullet connectors) with the key on, and I'm getting +12V. So I went ahead and jumpered everything - pins 3 and 4 on both ends of T41, and pins 11 and 12 of the blue connector (which must be connector #1) that plugs into the ABCM. When I turn the key, I get the same results I've been fighting going on two weeks now - the fuel pump doesn't come on (I've tested the DME relay per Clark's Garage's instructions, and it works perfectly, and the fuel pump turns on when I jumper the terminals at the DME relay). Also, the blink test doesn't work - when I turn the key to the start position, the CEL illuminates, but when I press the throttle to the floor and hold it, the CEL never blinks. And when I crank the engine with a spark plug removed and its threads grounded, I don't get a spark. Here's an overall summary of everything I've done so far, and their results:

I removed my engine in April of 2011 to perform a full rebuild. When I tried starting it up about two weeks ago, the following happened:

- When I turn the key to the start position, I don’t hear the fuel pump
- I tested the DME relay per Clark’s Garage’s instructions, and it checks out as being perfectly healthy
- Installing my spare DME relay gives the same result
- There’s 0V at DME relay terminals 87 and 87b, which activate the fuel pump, and the spark (not as sure about the spark)
- When I move the key to the start position, several warning lights (oil level, brake pad sensor, ABS) come on, and stay on as long as I have the key in the start position
- When I try to do a blink test, the CEL illuminates, but doesn't blink when I press the throttle to the floor and wait
- When I pull a spark plug, ground it’s threads, and crank the engine, there’s no trace of a spark
- When I crank the engine, the tach needle does not bounce
- There’s +12V going to the DME, at both the constant-supply terminal, and the ignition switch-activated terminal
- Changing the ECU chip from my RacerX to the stock chip makes no difference
- I discovered that I had reconnected the 14-pin connector in the passenger footwell incorrectly. After I corrected this, the warning lights went away, but there was no change in my car’s symptoms
- I checked the connections of the 14-pin connector in front of the fuse box, and they were all correct
- I’m getting +12V at DME relay terminal 86, which is for the ignition switch. My understanding is that this rules out the alarm system, because the alarm should immobilize the ignition
- The alarm arms normally when I lock the doors, as evidenced by the blinking red LEDs in the door buttons, and disarms when I unlock the doors
- As far as I can tell, everything else (power windows, lights, central locking, power mirrors, etc.) works normally
- When I install a different (presumably functional) DME, there’s no change in any of the symptoms
- I’m confident in the condition of my car’s grounds, and I carefully inspected the wiring harness before putting the engine back in the car, and didn’t see any issues with any of the wires. In fact, I’ve never seen any sign of corrosion, or of a bad connector, in this car
- The throttle position sensor goes from 0.4 to 5V when I insert the leads from my analog voltmeter between pins 1 and 3 at the TPS, and open the throttle

So, I'm getting voltage to the DME, but there appears to be no signal coming out. I don't think it's the crank position sensor, because I should still be getting a signal at the DME relay to activate the fuel pump even if the crank pos sensor were bad or not gapped correctly.

So, I'm completely out of ideas, and am beyond frustrated with this whole thing. It must be something I touched during the engine R & R, but I've checked everything I can think of. Does anybody have any other suggestions as to things I should check? Would a Durametric help me troubleshoot this problem? Thanks.

docmirror

Well, the only reason I mention the CPS is I think that this signal must be present to turn on the fuel pump as I believe it will not come on until the engine is cranking and spark is present for safety. We don't want to pump fuel into an engine where there is no spark.

So, you need to fix your spark system first before looking at the injection system. I think at this point you're going to need the bosch hammer 9688 diagnostic tool to figure things out. If your CEL isn't working then the next deal is the Bosch tool. The WSM section 24/28 discuss diagnosis of the various sensors and drivers for the ignition and FI.

Page 8 table column labelled "engine will not start" has the following conditionals:

supply voltage control plug pins 24 to 18 and 24 to 27, 12V

RPM signal(my favorite) pins 48 to 49, pulse must be checked with O-scope

Control unit defective

DME relay ( you can jumper this once you get spark going)

fuel pressure, intake leaks, grounds and ever popular catch all 'ignition system' issues.

Cloud9...68

Doc,

Yes, I've spent a lot of time poring over WSM section 24/28 these past couple of weeks. I hear what you're saying about the logic of the fuel pump not turning on if there is no spark, but I distinctly remember back in the dim dark past when this car ran that when I turn the key to the start position, the fuel pump makes an audible hum. When I jumper the DME relay terminals 87b to 30, I do get the hum from the fuel pump. So I've been interpreting the lack of voltage at DME relay terminals 87b (power to fuel pump) and 87 (power to DME and injectors), along with the non-functional blink test, as evidence of a lack of signal coming out of the DME. I would think this is higher on the hierarchy of things that have to work than the CPS, although obviously I'm the farthest thing from an expert on this stuff.

As far as the other measurable items (for those lacking an oscilloscope) in the list of "engine will not start" items, I'm getting +12V at pins 24 to 18 whenever the battery is connected, +12V at pins 24 to 27 with the key in the start position, I've replaced the control unit with one (presumably functional) that somebody lent me, I've tried both of my DME relays, and tested my primary one to confirm that it works. I've also measured the resistance across the pins from the yellow and black wires going into the CPS, and it reads the correct 980 ohms, so the CPS itself appears to be OK. And I set the gap and installed it with the engine out and on a stand, so I'm pretty sure I did it right.

Will a Bosch Hammer work if there's no signal coming out of the DME, as it looks like in my case? Don't those things cost about the equivalent of a new 911? Are they even still available?

I have to think that whatever is wrong is caused by something I touched during the engine R & R. High on my list has been the 14-pin connector in the passenger footwell. I made the mistake of taking the caps off of it as I was trying to figure out how to disconnect it, causing all the wires to pop out. So, between the wiring diagram and pictures people have sent me of theirs, I've been painstakingly working on putting the wires back. I think I have it correct now (I know I didn't on my first attempt), and one thing that changed is that now, all those warning lights (oil level, brake pad condition, ABS) are no longer illuminated when the key is in the start position, just the "!", the CEL, and I think the oil pressure gauge.

Thanks very much for taking the time to help me with my problem.

tamathumper

So, if the fuel pump spins when you jumper it, but not when you turn the key, have you verified the condition of the ignition cylinder and related connections?

docmirror

No prob. Wish I had a magic bullet. The Bosch hammer is quite expensive. fortunately, the 928 crew in DFW has several. Roger at 928sRUS has a couple, and he will likely rent one to you for a short time to diagnose the issue. Contact Roger at 817-430-2688. It would be best if you could tow the car up here to Sean's garage for a couple days. With the hammer and my car to steal stuff from we could get it isolated in a little while.

All I can suggest from here is step-wise refinement. Until you get spark, you're not going anywhere. If you think you have a signal from the CPS, that leaves the DME signal which you've checked.