Hey Bruce, I have a portable "Road Dyno" unit that I can bring to Renntreffen. If you want, we can play with a "before and after" comparison there. I'm keeping my 968 100% stock (um, except for Daves LED third light conversion) so I won't be drilling any holes in mine, so if you want to do the mod, we can dyno yours then swap in my stock box and dyno again, and see gains occur. Since the dyno require driving the rear wheels to get results, we can just take a drive and report the "real world finding" if you'd like. I'm guessing Dave has this pretty well sussed, what he has said confirms what I was thinking based on the dirt patterns on the air filter.

Regards,

 

Did anything come of this?

 

Unfortunately I did not make it to Rentreffen so nothing came out of it.

 

it continues to amaze me how many people have a blind reverence for the porsche engineers - they did a fair job putting this car together out of "spare parts" (i often lovingly refer to the 968 as "franken-porsche"), but they were far from perfect when designing this car

they left a lot on the table in many areas for their own very valid reasons - but why would anyone think that this is all there is? they had to build something that suited a lot of conditions, including noise standards - of course there will be ways to squeak more power out of it, but it will compromise some of the conditions, limits and requirements to which the engineers were subjected

everybody should feel free to test whatever they want - you will see the same results under the same conditions, and follow the instructions precisely, without variance or omission - we have at least 30 people who have done this and every single one of them can attest to the very obvious improvement

however, at least please read the 20 page article by steve dinan before attempting any comparitive testing - there are specific procedures to follow - you cannot just run it, switch it, and run it again - there are measurements to be taken and specific conditions to maintain, in an exact controlled environment, to get accurate results - far too many dyno shops mislead people on an all too frequent basis when testing cars, by cramming them in and not taking the time to do it right - i presume this is because they would lose clients if they had to charge for how much time it really takes - you can expect 2 hours to do a simple comparison of with and without the intake mod

bruce, i did not get angry - i got annoyed at what i read in your written tone, and what i and others believed at the time to be the true intent of your questions - for the record, they were deleted by the moderator (dave) as inflamatory and argumentative, as were my responses, which started off as simple and direct answers to your questions (which are still there by the way) - it quickly became very clear to all that called and emailed me that you were not interested in anything but an argument, and yes, my responses declined in tone, so of course they were also deleted - for those concerned, no information of value was deleted

also, it says clearly on the charts where the measurement is indicated from - all you have to do is look

your qustion has not been ignored, but as i said on the phone with you, you will not get a numerical answer from me on how much power there is with this mod and a chip - i did not thoroughly test that at that time - also, i am not interested in getting into another discussion of what somebody else thinks is the best chip, or another battery of variations of testing - i know how well it does with my chip, and i know now that with that chip it is the largest improvement available to date, but i am not getting into another shootout test or another long pointless back and forth over chips - people can either trust me or not - that is entirely up to them - and again, feel free to test anything yourself

 

I don't see what the big deal is here. Either drill the holes or don't. You are talking about something that is pretty much free. It is not like anyone is trying to talk you into buying their product and not providing you with the data that you want. Can someone please explain to me what all the fuss is about?

 

lol - that's kind of my question too - it was a long, involved, and expensive process to figure it all out, and we got some great results - then we told everybody how to go do it themselves - i kind of figured everybody would just jump on it - i never expected the hassles i've gotten, and wonder if i should have just kept it to myself

 

Flash--I just got the products and was wondering if there is a simple way to get all of the stuff off--I bought the article on .pdf as well, but after quickly looking under my hood, I don't exactly know where to start as far as removing the airbox. I am however looking forward to trying this out!

 

did you get the new very cool airbox retension nuts? if you did, the process is pretty easy - if you didn't, you get to play with the stupid rubber thingies that porsche thought was a good idea

the snorkel has to be removed first, but is only held by the two screws

once you undo all the clips and remove the lid, the box itself is only held down by those two - you have to pry them loose to get it out of there - reinstallation of them is a drag, and the new retension nuts are a much better solution

 

Wow, someone is a in bad mood today. If you reread my post which has not been edited all I said is that Scott and I did not try out the modification at Rentreffen. In fact I have never suggested that this modification does not provide increased power or even questioned the numbers you published. I have complete faith in anything Dave develops.

I know you have been missing the opportunity to pick a fight, but please leave me alone. There is a great "off topic" forum here at Rennlist where you can find plenty of posts to argue about.

 

Gee, independent examination of a mod is a bad thing??

 

not in a bad mood and not picking any fights - not interested in any fights - i am interested in keeping facts straight though

you incorrectly put words in my mouth and said i was angry - you incorrectly referred to what was deleted by dave and why - you incorrectly said there was no answer to where the power was indicated from - you aluded to some machiavelian reason for not not testing with a chip, or disclosing those findings - i wanted to set the record straight on all counts

i don't know who you think you are tring to fool, and really don't care, but the passive/aggressive comments about "your faith in what dave develops" are clearly designed to once again take a shot at me, and are inappropriate - it is exactly the kind of thing that was deleted - i'm sure that john would not appreciate them either - it is you that is trying to pick a fight by trying to paint an inaccurate picture of me or my efforts - stop - there are moderators here that will not respond well

once again, for the record, dave and i worked on this pretty much side by side, beginning with a conversation about snorkels, parallel work developing bigger ones, followed by us reading an article about negative pressure, both of which were long before we got to the intake testing at my house that then led to the hours spent on the phone going over our ideas, ultimately leading to the airbox mod - i'm glad you like what we came up with - you're welcome

damian, you misread - at what point did i indicate that independent examination was a bad thing? i, in fact, encouraged testing (on somebody else's dime) - i just want to make sure that proper procedure is followed so that accurate results are found - by all means test away - i'm happy to see domebody besides me doing the work

 

Flash--thanks for the information. Yes, I splurged and spent the $5 or something that the nuts cost Glad I did now since you mentioned it.

Let's all get along and be happy--make the 968 Board look good here We are a small contingent and should stay happy with each other!

 

cool - should be a very easy job then - if you have any problems or questions, please feel free to contact me

no worries - what's not to be happy about? life is good (sure beats whatever is in second)

 

Here is the way I look at this issue:

Flash (9 Magazine) has spent a lot of time and money (dyno time is not cheap!) to study this mod. He has shared his findings with the community. If you disagree with his information, that is fine! The difference so far is that he has empirical data to back his claims up. Go to the dyno and test it yourself if you want to!

Maybe if we are mean enough, we can scare a few other people into not sharing their ideas or research?

This site logs over 250,000 unique IP addresses EVERY DAY!! It is tough enough for some people to post their ideas in front of such a large audience, let's not criticize them for it.

Okay?

 

Just did this mod last night, and I can attest to a few things.

1. I am an idiot wrenching and this took me no longer than 40 minutes start to finish.
2. Buy the replacement nuts for $15 and save yourself a ton of trouble...those rubber things that hold the airbox to the frame are a PITA to deal with.
3. The engine sound at WOT is fantastic now...not tinny or weak like the stock engine note. Very throaty.
4. The butt dyno registers faster acceleration, especially from the 3500-6000 RPM range.
5. This is the best $65 you will spend on your 968.

Thanks again to Flash for the idea/write up and to 968engineering.com for the parts.