jsheiry

GAT German Auto Tops was recommended to purchase the top from https://www.germanautotops.com/porsc...nvertible-tops This is only the begining.... They offer 3 top materials...German A5 Material, Twillfast II, Stayfast They seem to be about $500, $400, $330 respectively.

There is also GAA and Topsonline etc, etc. with more of the same lingo.

Anyone have any thoughts on the various fabrics? My inclination is to buy the most expensive one as the job pays 12 hrs and you dont want to do it again anytime soon! The one thing that has me scratching my head is that after speaking to GAT on the phone he actually likes the $400/Twillfast II top.

I have never seen the difference and the small sample sizes on the screen are difficult to tell. He indicated that the Twillfast II material was used more and more by newer cars and he prefers the look. Any experienced thougts?

spark1

I did quite a bit of research on this topic a few months back. I went to several places and held the different fabrics in my hands. A5 and Twillfast II were very similar in feel and appearance. The biggest differences are that A5 has a rubber inner layer and has a higher acoustical value.

Many of the on-line shops buy the tops pre-made from one or two top manufactures. Make sure the stitching is the same color as the material and the cloth is cut by a CAD system using Gerber cutting system. From what I understand most (if not all) A5 tops are made this way.

Personally I think you are correct in leaning toward the A5.

Devin

thomasmryan

I am in the POR15 part of the process of putting a stayfast top on a 79 beetle. excellent touch, like a fine necktie (with 4 stripes on the tie backing). It has a tighter thread count than the Gahh top on my '68, which is more canvas like. Looks aside, I would assume the tighter the weave, the easier it would be to keep clean.

jsheiry

Have samples of A5, Sonnenland, Twillfast II coming from German Auto Tops.

John from German Auto Tops is very helpful on the telephone. According to him the latest BMW 6 series convertibles as well as some Audi's use the Twillfast II material as factory choice. He said economically the Twillfast II is cheaper as its made in USA and he does not have the exchange rates and shipping to contend with like he does on the A5 or Sonnenland. He also thinks the A5 is a little stiff for many installers, more difficult to produce nice work.

Still collecting evidence, let me know what you used or your top guy prefers?

Thanks
John

spark1

John,

I forgot to ask. Is the German Auto Top a one piece or a two piece? The two piece will be much easier to install.

Devin

jsheiry

I got the sense that all of these tops start life as two pieces and the rear window (back 1/3 of top) get mated together with the (front 2/3 of top) during installation?? Have not seen it done and in fact would love to watch the process. There is nothing more intriguing than watching talented people do what they do. Dont think this is an option as its a 12hr book job!

2001f4s

I have been researching the same question and was directed to this company by 2 installers:

https://www.gahh.com/convertible-top...convertibl-top

I was quoted 14 hours of install time for a total of $2K including parts. That was a bit scary, and as mentioned previously, hoping I won't have to go down this path again anytime soon.

spark1

I was told the same thing by a friend who has specialized in installing German car interiors and tops for over 35 years. Their web site prices are much higher than others, approximately $350 more, but from what I found they use a unique window bonding process on the GAHH tops. See the following link: https://www.gahh.com/convertible-tops.

They also manufacture tops that are less expensive (under a different name Sierra auto tops, and maybe others) and sold to many of the on-line top shops,

GAHH was one of the places I visited to view their top material. I left very impressed.

2001f4s

Thanks Spark1, great information. BTW BMW bike owner here too: 2007 R1200S, 2005 K1200S

jsheiry

Just got off the phone with GAHH about their offerings. Technical rep confirmed a few things for me that others have said or eluded too. Twilfast being choice of many new car manufacturers. German "classic" NOT A5 as being the factory material or closest to it. He said that the Twilfast was slightly thicker and had better accoustical properties than the German classic. He indicated that the additional stiffness would make it a little tuffer for the installer to stretch. Unlike the gentleman at GAT who said that he would use the Twilfast if it were his own car, Jack at GAHH indicated that he would use the German classic if it were his own car

After speaking to both of these guys I think that they all use the same materials and the difference ends up being that this is a hand made product in the end. That each of them effectively take an old top and make their own patterns to work from, who do you trust at the end of the day.
Im really surprised that the Twilfast top is nearly $800 at GAHH and its $400 at GAT ?? I think that GAHH supports their installers by not selling the tops cheaper than they can be offered by them, this gives them some markup. This is inline with the thought that all installers seem to recommend GAHH, its just like my business where we recommend product lines like Klipsch, Integra, Sony, Sonos, and others that protect their brands fiercely online and dont let Amazon and others sell them online for one cent less than MSRP or they will take the brand from you.

Jack at GAHH said that their sister company is Robbins?? He indicated that they use the same materials but different patterns/assemblers.

Im inclined to buy a Twilfast top from GAT and pay my installer to put it on. $400 cheaper BUT if I pay him $1800(top from GAHH) he warrants everything and I wont have any finger pointing....Im fundamentally a cheapskate at heart but for $400 it will give me some peace of mind in a one stop warranty department if there are any problems.

There are lots of names to protect the innocent, here is the road map as far as I can tell:

German classic or Sonnenland classic - closest to factory top
German A5 or Sonnenland A5 too thick for this cars use ?? According to GAHH
Twillfast or Twillfast II US made, slightly thicker than German classic(slighty better accoustic properties) and slightly more challenging to stretch and install?? Used by some new European Car Companies as factory top. $75 - $100 less everywhere.
Stayfast thinner material than German classic, cheaper and not recommended by either GAT or GAHH unless cheap top needed for quick resale was the impression I got from both.

All seam to use high quality plastic window, no glass window offerings(I think the top folds unusually near the window) I have heard of zip out windows for these cars on other forums but as of now have not found single source for that option.

Hope that info is helpful.

thomasmryan

jsheiry

Thomas you are multi-talented!

I received my samples today and confirmed what GAT told me on the phone. I kind of like the Twilfast slightly better, deeper black, similar pattern, slightly thicker. I called my installer about the material to ask if he had any problem installing the Twilfast, slight communications barrier on the phone but he had a hard time believing me that the Twilfast was thicker. He indicated his GAHH samples were just the opposite...and that the German Classic was thicker than the Twilfast. He still indicated he thought the German Classic would be better AND took $300 of the price of the GAHH top with our conversation on the phone.

This is remarkable like buying a mattress where 50 companies sell these things all carefully marketed under different names to protect price shopping. So I called GAHH and relayed my findings so far and how confused I was with what I had in my hands vs what my installer who recommended their product was saying and they effectively said that over the last year or so that the German Classic material had gotten thinner than it used to be?? Really. I asked them to send me a sample of each like GAT did and I will compare.

I firmly believe that all these companies use the same material and that GAHH gets away with charging more because they have the complete installation world in their corner and recommending their products. People just cave to the thought of the complete warranty from the installer providing the top & the installation.

NOW that my installer only wants about $100 more to provide the Twilfast Top I will probably go that route for the full warranty. He seems to be truly concerned with using something from anyone other than GAHH. I dont think there will be any difference but for about $100 at this point why push it and create something in the air.

thomasmryan

looks aside, end use would matter. if you put the top down frequently, there will be chaffing in the folds, more so with thicker/rougher materials. laying a towel over the rear bow and rear window helps.

also consider the load on the frame when lifting and lowering using heavier materials. the rear bow gets pushed up in the last movement of travel during closure so a more flexible/stretchable material is less wear and tear on the hardware.

when you return the top to the upright position, thicker materials will probably show the creases a bit longer. in colder climates, thicker might have a slightly better insulation value as well as dampen the tire/engine/road noise.

stayfast seemed to be the best compromise. personally, I like the 'feels' of it.

I am 40 hours into the job but I am using needle and thread, copper rivets and trimming the edge of the padding so the top doesn't look like a slice of cheese on a burger. overkill for a super beetle. the headliner hangs loose on the sides so I am fishing sections of magnets glued to a shoe string in the flaps so it will attach to the frame when its up. slightly retentive but the flap is annoying just hanging there.

djantlive