Igooz

I am helping my friend fulfill his dreams and buy a couple of his dream cars. I have talked him into buying a 964 Turbo, and here is where I need your opinion.

All things equal, the approximate price difference between a '91-'92 and the '94 is now $100K +/-. In good conscious I cannot recommend to him to spend an extra $100K. I don't have a crystal ball to see where the prices will go in the future but $100K is $100K...

From a performace perspective I owned a '91 turbo from 1993-2001 and now a '94 for around 2 years; is there really that much performance difference? I'd say no IMHO.

From a bubble (bursting) perspective: The '94 has more than doubled in price.

From a looks perspective: Of course, Big Reds and Speelines, how can you go wrong?

My friend is at a age that barring a crisis, he will keep them for about 20 years and then pass on to kids or sell.

He will buy whatever I tell him and I have leads on all cars...Any long term advice?

TIA

bweSteve

What will he use them for? Is he a driver? ... What kind of driving (social PCA type driving tours? or just something else)?? .... Does he want them to sit in his collection?

You say $100k is a $100k, but if a guy can afford it,... but if a $100k can be applied to the additional car he wants to buy, then it sounds like you've already made that decision.

I'm sure you've seen MMPORSCHE's car for sale (which is a great price btw),... but maybe your guy doesn't like a guards red '91 that has the Alurad RH replica Speedlines, but only black calipers? Cuz that one would be a great buy IMO.

Anyway,... it's kinda hard exactly to give an opinion when we don't know what your buddy values in his ownership. More about his "desires" for owning a 964 Turbo would help.

=Steve

Igooz

^Thanks Steve. I think that he will be an ocassional driver of the car, probably a 1,000-2,000 miles per year; most likely not a councourse kind of guy... Honestly not sure.

Really can't decide what to recommend, the 3.3 or the 3.6.

bweSteve

Ahhh, so even though he would probably keep the car for ~ 20 yrs and then bequeath the car to his kid(s) - or sell,... the real question here for YOU Igooz, seems to be which of the two (3.3 -vs- 3.6) would provide the most investment % increase over time. Ahhh, market predictions.

That's a GREAT question, and now I see why you are pondering it. Hmmm.

I guess the other question is "how much time". Over the 20 yrs of his ownership, I'm certain he would see several iterations of rise & fall, as with any market. If he keeps an eye on it,... then there certainly could be some "temptation" to sell earlier than 20yrs, if there is another big upward swing.

I did not really initially notice this last market rise until all the air-cooled 911's started really jumping up in price (for me I think I saw it back in 2012,.. but did not really get "shocked" at prices until about 2014). And for the last 3 yrs or so, my opinion has been that I own it cuz I love it, and I don't care how much more it may be worth over what I paid. And yes, just like your buddy, my thoughts are that my kids will probably get it. But by then I won't care, cuz I'll be dead, Lol. So for me, w/r/t our 964Turbo, it is "fun" to watch the market swings,... but we still drive it. The downside is from the standpoint of my son, who would love to buy a 911SC, cuz for him it is frustrating. He would love to own & drive one,... but being only less than a year out of college, at these prices, it's not gonna happen for quite a few for more years.

So now, I agree with most, that the upward trajectory has finally settled back. Thus my opinion is that it could be a good time to buy a 964T. That opinion is also based on the limited quantities available.

But the dichotomy for your buddy is this: If he spends the extra $$$ for a real nice low mileage example, then he is not going to want to drive it. That right there may be the dagger.

So if he really does want to have some driving pleasure, and as you say drive 1k - 2k per year,... then buy a 70k mile 3.3 and in 15 yrs it will have mileage in the low 90's, and his ability to sell at that point should still be good, and at a fair profit. He will just need to pick the right upward "swing" to get the most out of selling it.

Anyway,... that's just my off the cuff ramblings.
=Steve

cobalt

I think Steve has it nailed. The biggest problem right now is finding a car worthy enough to invest in. Lets face it at these prices and projected future they are a form of investment.

There are many 3.6's for sale I wouldn't give you half their asking price for. I had a hard time finding one worthy of buying back in 2001 and it is not any easier today. IMO the 3.3's give you a great bang for the buck and are climbing in value while the 3.6's except for the odd PTS or exceptional car is not selling. There are a couple I know of in the $175k range I wouldn't buy at any price and many asking over $200k have one issue or another or just a plain jane. A nice black low mileage example recently sold for $275k and i know of a few who paid considerably more for the exceptional car but the rest are not in the condition to warrant these prices.

Frank's old midnight blue is one of the nicer examples I know of and it wasn't perfect. The only factory rear seat delete optioned 3.6 or any 964 turbo that I am aware of will one day be a selling point but does it make it worth the $290k asking price? It is one of the few all original paint cars I have seen out of countless out there that are trying to pass off what they have as original paint.

I would direct him in the best example he can find if he finds a worthy 3.6T without issues and has the money in the long run it may prove to be the better investment however if he drives it thousands of miles a year he could bolt on some mods and have as much fun in a 3.3 and save some $$.

Igooz

Thank you very much Anthony and Steve for your well thought ideas. I really appreciate the input.
I have leads on low mileage and clean 3.3 and 3.6 cars as I have been tracking some of these cars since 1991.

We will have a conversation during the 4th. of July. I am leaning towards the 3.6. However, as the "advisor" I feel the weight of my responsibility to not mislead him for my own personal preference for the 3.6....

cobalt

Best luck. Let us know how it turns out.

Igooz

Yes sir - will do with pix.

PS: I have a set brand new in box (10+ years) Speed Lines that I can always "donate" to my friend if we end up with the 3.3

bweSteve

Donation!! - nice to have friends like you!!!