cobalt

Try this

http://www.vsource.org/VFR-RVF_files/BVINcalc.htm

Doc V.

Try this analysis of your US 1991 3.3 964 Turbo (derived from Adrian Streather's Porsche 964, 993 & 996 Data Plate Code Breaker):

1st digit--W = Country of Origin (West Germany)

2nd digit--P = Dr. Ing. h. c. F. Porsche AG

3rd digit--0 = Passenger Car

4th digit--A = Coupe (US Market Designation)

5th digit--A = Turbocharged 3.3 liter engine (US Market Designation; "C"=Turbocharged 3.6 liter engine for the US Market)

6th digit--2 = Seat Belts and Air Bags (US Market Designation)

7th and 8th digits--96 = First Part of the Type Number ("96" in "964")

9th digit--0 through 9 or X = Checksum Test Digit (US Market Requirement)

10th digit--M = 1991 Production Model Year

11th digit--S = Stuttgart, Germany, Place of Manufacture

12th digit--4 = Last Remaining Number in the Type Number ("4" in "964")

13th through 17th digits = Specific Serial Number

Steven C.

Got it. Thanks Did not know about the check digit in the VIN's.

Doc V.

Apparently, the 13th digit--probably an "8" for your car, Steve--identifies the body type. The last four digits of the VIN then serve as the car's individual serial number.

Anthony and Norbert can provide a better explanation, I'm sure.

Steven C.

Yep, mines an 8. Thanks Doc.

drb930

Subscribed.

65rsr

Beautiful example of a limited production, low mileage 964 Turbo.

These cars are going to do nothing but appreciate. 964's are the last of the hand built 911's. We will look back and see that this one was very well priced. Just look at what RS Americas, RS's, 3.8RS's, Cup Cars, 964 3.8 RSR's. 964 Speedsters. America Roadsters, '92 turboS's,C4 Jubilees(94 Widebody) are going for. 930's in the same condition are commanding top dollar. I think the '91 3.3 is the ultimate incaration of what a 964 version of a 930 should be.

The M64 based turbo3.6 is not the ultimate factory evolution and of the mighty 930, the '91 turbo is.

The '91/'92 turbo has always suffered from the "it's not a 3.6" syndrome, and it is not, it is unique in it's own way, I actually think it feels more modern 930, more 911 than the big brake, big engine turbo3.6. (turbo3.6's are awesome too, don't get me wrong, they'll always command an even higher dollar obviously) Six figure sales of '91/'92 turbos will become commonplace.

cobalt

Not sure if everyone here will agree.

Although there are differences that set them apart the 3.6 is still built on the same concept/platform as the 3.3L version 964T which follows the same approach to turbocharging a 911 as the 930. I would say last of the hand assembled and finessed vs. built. Both versions of the 964T are rear wheel drive, CIS injected single turbocharged 911's. The 3.6 has the distinction of being the last variant of this approach. True some 930 fans will argue any 964 turbo is not an extension of the 930 others will argue the 964 turbo both 3.3 and 3.6 are a newer advanced version of them, however both fall into that category. You cannot include the 3.3 without including the 3.6. I am still not sure why the RSA is getting the attention it is. I would expect the RSA to fall in line behind the speedsters and other more rare models that offered something far different than their base C2 counterpart. I am still waiting to see where this market will head if they take off as some are claiming I expect the C2 to follow closely behind.

As far as where the money will stop all depends on how many people desire these cars and how many become available. This could all blow over tomorrow although I doubt it.

RSA_27149

^^^ there aren't very many 3.3's, and even fewer 3.6's, obviously. I think the low mileage expamples (<20k miles or thereabouts) will begin to really separate from the pack, value wise.

Personally, I don' think that values for collectable Porsches will suffer the same fate as the muscle cars did. The generations of buyers that follow the baby boomers are being trained by Porsche to become future collectors. China will be a huge market if not already. We've seen this in wine, art and other collectables already. Not just because I own a 964 Turbo, but I think that there's much to be optimistic about here.

njcycleguy

You make a great point that should further drive home the fact there is no reason 3.6's should command huge premiums over 3.3's. They should be much closer in terms of value and I believe the gap has already started to narrow.

Max964t36

JET951

Im With Cobalt here,
The 3.6 will command more then the 3.3, not there is anything wrong with the 3.3 its just that the 3.6 is more exclusive. Less built, exclusive wheels, more capacity. It just has more. It fills the gap between the 3.3 and the 3.6S. None the less they are all fantastic cars and represent Porsche development.

On that note we had a 3.6 turbo in our shop last week. As part of a customers collection (26,000km 964RS, 21,000km 1983 928, 39,000 km 1991 944 turbo and a 1986 944 turbo with 23,000km) This 964 turbo has just over 5000kms (3100miles) on the clock. Its a fantastic piece of history. It gets driven once a year to the workshop for a service and then back into the collection it goes.
Regards
Sean

65rsr

100% agree, worded my point slightly wrong. The turbo3.6, 3.6S will obviously always be worth more for obvious reasons, rarity, 3.6,brakes etc... S's, program cars, slant nose deletes, whoa. 964's are all last of hand built. I bet we see a lot of '91 to' 94 conversions when it's time for rebuilds. My comment about the 3.3 was that the engine is a continuation of the 930 engine versus the turbo3.6 being bases on the new M64 engine. Not a bad thing, just different. A few years ago you could find a '91 turbo for in the low 30's, those days are gone. It's awesome how all 964's are appreciating so rapidly, they've always been my favorite in terms of old school Porsche feel with modern performance and conveniences. And coil overs.

Doc V.

Both variations of the 964 Turbo have big brakes, with far more similarities than differences. Take a look at Bill Verburg's "Brake Page": http://www.pelicanparts.com/MotorCity/wmv/brakes.htm

njcycleguy

+1. I'm tired of hearing the same nonsense about the 3.6's being so much more exclusive. As if they made 10000 3.3's and 100 3.6's and there are so many more differences. Wheels - big deal. Easy upgrade and correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't some 3.3's been optioned from the factory with Speedlines? Brakes - OK - but relatively straightforward upgrade. 3.6 vs 3.3 - OK got me there, but honestly, from what I understand, a 3.3 can be made as fast or faster than a 3.6 with modest upgrades. And as far as looks go, unless it's an S package car or a slantnose, there are no differences.

Don't get me wrong, I have an appreciation for both, and I would pay more for a 3.6 over a 3.3 - my argument is that a 3.6 should not command the LARGE premium that seems to exist over a 3.3.

Just my 2 cents.. and I appreciate both for what they are - the last of an exceptional breed of Air Cooled, hand built, RWD 911 Turbos.