John McM

Reading the 0 to 60 figures in a 'normal' car magazine got me thinking about something we don't discuss much on this forum - real world acceleration and the competition out there.

I must point out that I'm not one of those maniacs trying to prove something on the street; in fact I figure that mature indifference to the young bloods winds them up more than lowering myself to their level and taking them on.

However, if I was tempted to give the car its head, which Japanese and/or European cars out there would be able to embarrass me either from start or from a rolling start?

My impression from the magazine figures is that some of the Japanese turbocharged 4wd cars would give it a run off the line, but almost nothing would match it when it's rolling. Is that a fair assumption?

Brent 89 - GT

Interesting exercise! So Car and Driver put down a 4.0 sec 0-60 and 12.4 quarter mile('94 3.6 Turbo). They did it by dropping the clutch at 5500rpm, something an owner is not likely to do too often(if ever). They also do a rolling start test 5-60 mph, it knocks that off in 5.2 seconds, still mighty fast.

I think the 4 second time is untouchable for the most part.If you are willing to dump the clutch HANG ON. The other thing to consider is the other parties willingness to abuse their machine. Not many people, save the V8 pony car group, are ready for a serious tire spinning launch.

Right now there are very few new cars capable of giving you a run. Most that are happen to be fellow German cars. The M BMWs are very quick, the C5 Vette is dangerous, even the Mustang cobra and SVT F150 pickup can give you on heck of a run. I think by the time the Porsche winds up all bets are off and the 3.6 turbo will clean up. There are no numbers on a street start QM times but I would guess it to be 13.0-13.2, that is enough to dispense with just about anything. Now some modded Jap cars like the Supra twin turbo can be made insanely fast. The chances of a rare Porsche tubo meeting a rare well modified ricer are pretty slim. I also think you may get beat off the line by a modded civic, it may take you up to 60 or 80 but you should be able to beat it. Just lead them to a road course, that is the Porsches home ground.

Porsches best street racre is probably the 993TT.I clocked a 5-60 in 4.5 seconds. Those little turbos just come on line sooner. If you dump the clutch on that beast they clock a 3.7 second run to 60 ans a 12.3 quarter, just a tenth quicker than the 3.6. More proof of tremendous top end on the C2T cars.

John McM

Hi Brent,

Thanks for taking the time to answer, you've given me some more figures for my collection on this rare model.

I took my friend for a short blast in my car and he was astounded; he said the acceleration in his 993RS was nowhere near as 'brutal',and he isn't normally effusive about other people's cars

I think the 0 to 60 Porsche figure for his car is 5.0secs whereas the Turbo 3.6 is 4.8secs That small paper, but large butt-ometer difference got me thinking about this whole area (I know he'd whip my butt on the track and acceleration is just one aspect of performance).

I have too much respect for the car to abuse it by dumping the clutch @5,500rpm. From your answer it would appear Porsche's 4.8sec 0 to 60 was obtained with car-friendly techniques so the 'real world' performance leaves this car still somewhere near the top of the heap i.e. I can maintain my mature attitude on the road.

That said, I might try the 5 to 60 time out. I did a start in second to see how fast it was without my slow gear change, and it went from oh well to oh my god pretty quickly...who needs gears?

Mr Michael B

John & Brent,

Yes nice thread.

John... You have a stout machine, however there are lots of cars that could upset the balance. As for which, well that all depends on how "in tune" you are with your car. A new Vette could make quick work of you if you did not know your machine, and a Camaro could do the same if some young buck out drove you. The Turbo makes a car like ours a bit more of a challenge to get right is all.

I have my car down pat. Here is an example:

"ET"

"MPH"

Brent quotes:

"I think the 4 second time is untouchable for the most part. If you are willing to dump the clutch..."

I do agree that 4 seconds to sixty is fast (not a lot will touch you on the street), but I dont have to dump the clutch to do it. These above numbers were posted w/ a non violent 2500 RPM launch, no big tire spin, no "dropped clutch," just proper driving techniques applied by an SCCA pro licensed driver who is "in tune" with his car & a Turbo format. My 0-60 was 3.89 seconds on this run. It was no sweat ("car-friendly techniques") . If you were next to me in the passenger seat, I think you would have thought I just took off kinda fast. It is easy to do. No way was it radical. If I can do it, so can you.

Nevertheless. Its not always the car, a lot of times its the driver. Your car however will easy dispose of many even with a "detached" driver at the helm.

I am sure you have gotten use to your C2T, so I would think that most would fall if you "tempted to give the car its head ..." (not that any of us would ever street race right???).

Do not fear Mustangs, or really any small bore import. Watch out for (like Brent mentioned) BMW ///M versions of any sort.

One last caveat... The previous owner of my car was less than "in tune." He would be pummeled by any Vtech Honda, or GTi VR6 for that matter (forget Stangs or Camaros!). So its all got to do w/ the captain of the ship my man. Ask yourself... Are you up to the challenge?

John McM

Micheal,

There isn't any American muscle around these parts so M3s and M5 would seem to be the most dangerous.

I'd put myself somewhere above "detached" but definitely not much above until I have some more time in the car.

The following site has a short video of a standing start. What would you class that takeoff as? Looks very docile to me.

Carpassion

Look at the clip labelled "Starten des Motors mit anschließendem wegbeschleunigen unter Volllast. Der Turbo ist gut zu hören"

pig4bill

A lot depends on where you are. On a given Saturday night in the northern California bay area, there are plenty of cars that are faster. I've heard similar for parts of Arizona and Texas, and I'm sure plenty of other parts of the U.S. Almost any Japanese turbo, not only Supras, but RX7, Mitsu Eclipse, MR2, etc can be boosted for outrageous speed. I think there's a video on the net of a turboed Miata running a 12 second quarter. An old Dodge Omni turbo turned 12.6 quarters for the $2001 challenge (total cost of car and mods cannot exceed $2001), you'd need a great launch to beat his consistent, auto-tranny launches. Contrary to what was posted earlier about Mustangs, the older Fox-bodied Mustangs are popular candidates for motor transplants and 10 second quarters.

If you want to play Woodward Avenue, there are lots cheaper ways to do it than a 964 turbo, especially when stuff starts breaking.

Mr Michael B

John,

Yes, I have seen that video clip. That is indeed "docile" on launch. I would say that is similar to my "normal" take off as I leave a stoplight just going to lunch.

For the above 12 flat run I assume you know that a launch would take more effort than that video. If you can imagine... Think of that video, but add a touch or rpm, and once the car starts rolling you note the rear end starts to "step out" a tad. Very controllable, but the car is "twisting" a bit. Run up through 1st, then a nice swift shift to 2nd, and bang... Your at 60 in 3.89 seconds. Nothing "hard edged," just a bit more than this docile video launch.

Oh... And I do want to say that I agree w/ "PigBills" thoughts on some Mustangs. I know they can be fast. However, your run of the mill Stang (that you see 90% of the time) is what I was referring to, and they are just semi quick.

Go get 'em John.

Adrian

Dear John,
Just watch out for those Nissan Skylines. The ones with the little GTR on the rear. Also the Mitsubishi EVO VI set to WRC specs. Tough to beat as well. There is not much non Porsche or exotic like a F360 Modena or F-40, F50 around that will touch your Turbo 3.6 in top form but there are a couple,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

86944turbo

The quickest car I've tangled with is a Viper. On the Freeway, I let him get the jump on me. I think he ended up shifting sooner than he should have. I pulled away, and by 130, or so, stormed away. The three
C-5 'Vettes that I've tangled with did not seem very quick. By time I got into 4th gear and either alongside or just ahead of them, I pull away so quick, it's as though they hit the brakes. The 405 H/P Z-R1's were quicker. Tangled with a supercharged Saleen with a bi-plane wing and vents all over. The owner said it had 490 H/P. It was pretty quick, but I could pull him in with my old 2.5 litre. It had nowhere near 490 H/P, but probably close to 400. The 993 tt I raced seemed about as quick as the Z-R1. Similar H/P and weight, I guess. Most of this was done on the open Freeway, where the start is irrelevant, but H/P and to some degree weight and aerodynamics are.

Mr Michael B

Hey '86944turbo,

"Viper, C5, ZR1, Saleen S/C, 993TT..."

Hey, your all right.



Nice crowd you hangout with there. Not a one will put out a top end charge like your ride though.

Keep up the good work.