sl951

I tried the search but couldn't find this answer (somewhat surprised).

For a stock 94 3.6T, is there a factory single mass flywheel part number?

I've read the 964/993RS type flywheel (964.102.239.31) may not work with the 94 CIS system because of the 60-2 tooth for 964/993 (fuel injected) motronic.

I know Patrick Motorsports has a single mass version, but is that custom or factory?

Second question - the clutch for the single mass flywheel is what type? It seems you can use the stock clutch with the single mass flywheel and the things that needs to change are; Guide Tube (longer), pilot bearing and starter ring gear...do I have that right?

Thanks
Steve

Miles965uk

You are basically correct, a LWF to go on the 3.6 would only be the RS one from Porsche, they are all the same 964/993 etc
But as you mentioned the 60-2 flywheel is no good for the EZ69 ignition control- it uses a 3 tooth... god knows why they did that.
Ive converted mine to a LWF with a sachs race engineering clutch and pressue plate but also used a aftermarket ECU to control the ignition.

If you go a LWF it will be thinner than the dual mass so yea you need a guide ,pilot bearing as well.

sl951

Thanks.
Adding to search references
For a stock CIS 94 Turbo type LWF conversion (240mm size)

- RS Lightweight flyweel (964.102.239.31) won't work unless you go with some aftermarket ignition ECU.
- Patrick Motorsports seems to be the only folks that has a custom LWF version that works with the stock ignition setup.
- Any 964/993 (G50) type 240mm Pressure Plate and clutch can be use as long as you get the longer RS guide tube and pilot bearing. Common 240mm Pressure plate/clutch combos out there include - stock (Sach), Sach race, Centerforce, KEP (aluminum), and Spec.

Metal Guru

Great info.
Also, the Kennedy Engineered Products pressure plate will clamp up to 650 ft-lb of torque and is re-buildable. I mention this because there is a rumor about the Sachs pressure plates going soft after a certain amount of use.

sl951

I like the KEP and I've used a G50 version, however it did increase the pedal effort.
The Centerforce I've used in 944 Turbo had the same pedal effort as stock.

Metal Guru

That can be a good thing as it may discourage a wife/gf from wanting to drive the car

sl951

After more investigation I going to use the Sachs Clutch Kit that the 996 GT2/Turbo/GT3 uses. I believe this kit uses the Aluminum Pressure plate (996.116.027.51) and latest RS/GT3 organic spring disc. A spring disc is needed for a LWF street conversion.

- The Sachs kit I'm going to try is K7028403 (a google search comes up with a bunch of vendors). There is another kit K7028402 - but I'm not sure what the difference is.

So why did I end up choosing this kit...

There are a bunch of Sachs 240MM pressure plates (they all weigh in about the same ~9.6 lbs):
964.116.028.53 (Sachs 3082 213 031)
964.116.028.91 (Sachs 3082 213 133)
More expensive High Clamp Race version Sachs 883082752
996.116.027.51 (996TT/GT2/GT3) = (Sachs 3082 213 136)

Since these all cost about the same (with the exception of Sachs 883082752), it make sense to go with the latest 996 version.
I figured a CIS 3.6 Turbo (with common mods) probably won't ever see Power/Torque like a 996 GT2, it should be fine for a LWF converted street performance car.

-------------------------------------------------------
Updates / EDIT -

I ended up getting the Sachs Kit K7028403 (noted as the 2005 GT3 Clubsport package - comes with RS Spring Organic Disc and the correct throwout bearing necessary for the conversion, bonus!).
K7028401 - won't work because the number of splines needs to be 23 teeth
K7028402 - Has a 23 teeth splines, but might be for the dual mass (solid clutch disc) 996TT/GT3

I believe all 3 of these kits use the Sachs Aluminum Pressure Plate 3082 213 136 which is Porsche Part 996.116.027.51

Here is what you get with Sachs kit K7028403:
1. Pressure Plate = 996.116.027.51 = Sachs 3082 213 136
2. Clutch = 996.116.015.30 = 996.116.015.31= 996.116.015.32 = Sachs 1878 000 802
3. Throwout bearing = 944.116.080.01 = Sachs 3151 227 001
4. Spline grease.




Here's the RS Starter Ring gear (964.114.143.31)


Here's the custom Patrick single mass flywheel for CIS 91-94 Turbos. Notice only 3 big teeth (i.e., no 60 teeth 964/993 RS flyweel)



Here are the rest of the parts needed
- RS Guide Tube (950.116.813.30)
- Pilot Bearing (931.102.111.00)
- Shorter Flywheel Bolts (the DMFW bolts are way too long)


I ended up not buying the all inclusive LWF conversation package that some sell.
Instead I got the Sachs clutch Kit# seperately and saved a bunch $.

Metal Guru

Does anyone know if the starter ring gear from the DMFW can be used on the LWFW?

sl951

No for two reasons.
1. I don't see how you can remove the ring gear from the DualMass. Looks like you'll need to cut/seperate things to get to it. The Ring gear sits between the dual flywheels

2. The DM ring gear doesn't have the Lip that the RS style has. This lip is need to concentrically align the pressure plate. Attached are pictures to show this

Metal Guru

Thanks.
Ok, so that's an RS ring gear per the PET. How will you trigger the ignition sensor?
Also, what is that pressure plate torque rated for?

Vincent C.

i would suggest that you buy the pressure plate from porsche, i used the 964 116 028 53, it was the only one that i could get to hold on hard boost, although the clutch pedal does stiffen up some.....vinnie

Steven C.

So what did you buy from Patrick in the end. I have a price from him for the whole package and I am thinking of buying it all from him as he will balance it all before he sends it out.

Vincent C.

just a note, the part # for the rs guide tube is 950 16 813 30...and paul, the ignition sensor reads the flywheel notches, and the ring gear is for the starter....the 964 turbo had a specific flywheel....the 964 rs had motronic, which read the 60 teeth for its ignition sensor....i had problems with the sachs pressure plates....the bad boy pressure plates come from porsche and are made in italy...just what i had to go through.....vinnie

Metal Guru

Yup, I understand that. However, the Turbo dual mass flywheel also has sensor notches that are read by the same Hall effect sensor that the Motronic uses. That signal goes to the EZ69 ignition unit. So, if the Patrick flywheel has no notches, it can't be used with the stock ignition, unless Patrick sells a trigger ring for it.

Steven C.

Patrick list no trigger in my quote. He uses a Turbo S lightweight flywheel with a 964 starting part number and a 911 C2 Euro RS ring gear 95-96 /911 GT3 Cup 99-05. He also uses a different Sachs clutch than the one in the kit above and a Porsche throwout bearing(944 number) but does use the same pressure plate as in the kit above.

Rightfully he does not list the full Porsche part #s.