cobalt

As you are all aware the market for the 964 turbo has been on a steady increase over the past few years. Initially it was the 94 turbos seeing the rise in price but now we are seeing an equal adjustment in the 91-92 market. Although each year I see fewer 94's for sale and many that do sell I would consider far from excellent condition but pricing is still well above the $50k mark. There have been a number sold for well above $80k and a few into the $90's, but the norm seems to be mid to upper $70's. Yet again Excellence magazine sees the need to dis us by showing another drop in value. So since 2004 they claim these cars have dropped by nearly $7k for an excellent condition car and ironically they have increased by that and more. I know I could not buy my car for what I paid for it in 2003 and have been offered a heck of a lot more than they are saying it is worth.

There are many models like the 914 and even the 928 they are showing an increase in value. I follow them all and can attest that they appear to be in tune with these markets but for some reason they keep failing when it comes to evaluating the market for the 964 turbo.

All I can say is if they can find me 5 excellent condition 94 turbos for $50k not only will I buy all 5 but will buy a lifetime subscription to their magazine. Although at this rate I think all they will do is loose me as a subscriber if they can't be realistic about the market instead of just applying some factor based on new model releases.

Metal Guru

The 964 pricing might be due to a personal bias that Bruce Anderson has toward Turbos in general since he receives a small amount of sales info from Excellence buyers (maybe).
I have the October 2005 issue in which he speaks of Turbos in general, saying "The assumed value for Turbos are a bit like homes in California - when there is a lot of money (in the economy) they are expensive. When the money diasppears it's hard to sell them". He also comments that "because this is a relatively small market, one year's results may not signal a new trend".
In 2005 Mr. Anderson claimed a price range of $29,000 - $48,000 for the 3.3 cars and $38,000 - $57,500 for the 3.6 cars.
From the little I've seen I would say that the 3.3's are still selling in that range but I will concur with you, Anthony, on your range for the 3.6 cars.
Conversely, his prices for late '80's 911 SC were as much as 20% higher than what I was seeing for those cars when I was trying to sell mine.
Bottom line, I don't think he has much influence over the market anyway but his "Market Updates" make for entertaining reading....

gr1275

I certainly agree with both of you. We have a '91 with about 30K miles on it that I would not sell for less than about $48K. The car is all original and in excellent condition with plenty documentation. I would consider it to be in typical condition for someone looking for a car they can enjoy with no excusses.
I don't see many of these, or the 3.6's, in our part of the world and the few I do see for sale are in the low $50's right now. Perhaps a private sale may run a little lower.
As with any car, there are certainly examples out there for sale in the high $20's and low $30's. Some are probably real bargians. Unfortunately, the ones I've seen are priced right in line with their condition. I keep looking in hopes of finding a 3.3 or 3.6 in great condition with appropriate documentation that I can pick up for well below $50K. I haven't found it and probably won't.
I believe the people on this site truely understand the market for these cars and are in the best position to define the value.

parsecnc4

+1 I will buy all 5 and throw in a $15K bonus to the person who finds & comes through with the deal for me.

pu911rsr

They never have gotten the early 911 vaules right either. I don't think the methodolgy the Bruce uses if very effective at getting at collector car values, maybe for beaters it works.
Phil

cobalt

So if I read you right you have seen excellent condition 3.6's for sale in the $50's and examples in the $20's and $30's? I have been keeping track of the market since 2001. The only 3.6 Turbo I have seen sell in the $30's was a car that had been stolen twice with a salvage title and was in total disrepair. Sunroof out all electronics gutted didn't run and speedlines damaged and it sold for $36k. I have looked at several cars for people and they were asking mid $60's I told the buyers to run. The cars had been in accidents with poor repair work and worn interiors and these eventually sold for high $50's.

I agree the market is a little tough right now but it still has a strong place for excellent condition cars. Most of the cars I see on the market right now are higher mileage and or have had some form of paint work, hidden issues or no paperwork which is critical. One trend I do notice with these cars is if they don't sell immediately it is usually for a reason and then the car might sell for less but that wouldn't qualify it as excellent condition.

If you can find me a good condition high mileage 3.6T that the buyer will take $38k for that doesn't need $25k in repairs I would be shocked. There are so few of these left in this country and finding one for $50k is nearly impossible unless it has issues, $30k I don't think so for any car unless it is for parts. I know of a dozen people that would jump all over a nice 3.6T no matter what the economy was doing for $65k and they can't find one. Most have been looking for over a year now. How about the one that sold to Rey Joseph with 7900 miles on it for $79k and he turned around and sold it for more than $90k. best yet if a stock 3.6t is worth a high of $51k and a turbo S is worth 18-23k more find me one in half decent condition for $75k and I will buy the magazine.

I have nothing against the 930's but if you are going to tell me an 89 930 will command more $$ than a comparable 94 3.6T IMO you have lost all credibility in my book. I can pick up a nice 993TT for $55k long before I can find a half decent 3.6T for the same $$. Surprisingly he even shows the 928GTS on a rise in value and owning one has had me keeping an eye on that market too. I agree they are on a slight rise but nothing like the 964T's.

Besides the fact that the article needed tweaking 10 years ago and is boring to read he obviously has a dislike for the turbos and IMO has no place making market calls with such a biased attitude. Plane and simple the content of his article proves he no longeris in touch with the market and should think about retiring i could do a better job witting these reports.

SA Mike

Mr. Anderson must have been in bed with some of the people that offered me in the low 60s for mine when I was selling it. If they would only wake up, and see what reality is. Exellence publishes crap like that and people start thinking it's fact.

gr1275

Hey Anthony, the one's I've found have been 3.3's. Sorry for the confusion! The 3.3's in the $30's have been high milage with varied mechanical concerns. I did find one 3.3 locally at a little over 50 that was very nice. As much as I want them (3.3's) to be worth that much, I'm just not sure the market is willing to support that. On the other hand, it's my opinion the 3.6 cars are easily worth what they are comanding.
To your point, I haven't even found a 3.6 in my small part of the world. Never mind one that needs work.

Bklyn964Turbo

While 3.6s are arguably collector cars now the 3.3s are not that far behind. Both cars will continue to rise in value due to the limited numbers in which they were produced. I know I am not stating any earth shattering news here but it's just real simple...do the math...there were limited numbers produced for both cars...it's the first modern Turbo...I paid a premium for mine last year because it had 21,000 miles on it and wasn't modified with the exception of the car being lowered.

While we would all love to boast we got something for a steal or a very good price I felt after looking for almost two years I would pay the premium. I agree that Excellence Magazine takes a credibility hit here but I am not ready to cancel my subscription only because I want to know what they are saying. The bad part is that the general public takes their word as bible and when someone that is new to this brand starts to look they think our asking prices are not realistic. It took me about 60 days when I started looking to determine and realize that Excellence so called "market updates" were to be used as a guide as what to look for specific to features and specs but certainly not pricing.

Most of their ranges IMO are just not accurate. I guess that's why they are ranges but they tend to "low ball" most cars...again just my opinion.

cobalt

Finding any of these cars in clean condition is becoming harder all the time. Interestingly they rate a 3.6 only $1000 more than a clean 92 3.3. The newer cars are becoming incredibly capable and the 09 997 promises to be interesting with direct injection and pdk although for street loving fun the 964 Turbo will always have a niche in the market as they continue to mass produce the newer cars. What other car offers so much adrenaline rush and classic Porsche style for the $$ in rwd form?

I don't plan on selling and I say this every year as I bitch about the inaccuracy of their market updates. I know they read these forums, I have seen them respond on the 928 forum. There is no reason why they can't revise their updates and give their subscribers some facts instead of old news everyone is tired of reading. Embellish a little and update the update. Reading the market updates is like watching reruns of Seinfeld, initially Brilliant, each time you see a rerun it looses the impact exponentially.

al 965

$1000.00, that sounds about right Cobalt !!!