Top-end rebuilds - when and why?
02-26-2007, 12:01 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Top-end rebuilds - when and why?
Fellow 965ers,
I'm nearly a year into 965 ownership and it's great! However, my car goes in for its major service in 2 weeks and although I know it won't be cheap, my biggest worry these days is that it will require a top-end rebuild. I have recently heard quite a lot of talk amongst UK 965 owners (both of 3.3s and 3.6s) of our cars needing/having top-end rebuilds.
For the sake of my own and a few other people's sanity (and wallets) it would be great to know:
a) What your current mileage is and
b) whether your car has had a top-end rebuild or not. If it did, at what mileage and why?
My car has c.87k miles on it, has a very slight oil leak (doesn't drip oil at all since I had the oil pipes replaced) and on a leakdown test it showed 4 cylinders at 3% and 2 at 4% - which I believe is good. The car runs very well (although it has a slight over boost issue at present which I hope is just the solenoid) and the engine has not been rebuilt.
Cheers,
Tim.
I'm nearly a year into 965 ownership and it's great! However, my car goes in for its major service in 2 weeks and although I know it won't be cheap, my biggest worry these days is that it will require a top-end rebuild. I have recently heard quite a lot of talk amongst UK 965 owners (both of 3.3s and 3.6s) of our cars needing/having top-end rebuilds.
For the sake of my own and a few other people's sanity (and wallets) it would be great to know:
a) What your current mileage is and
b) whether your car has had a top-end rebuild or not. If it did, at what mileage and why?
My car has c.87k miles on it, has a very slight oil leak (doesn't drip oil at all since I had the oil pipes replaced) and on a leakdown test it showed 4 cylinders at 3% and 2 at 4% - which I believe is good. The car runs very well (although it has a slight over boost issue at present which I hope is just the solenoid) and the engine has not been rebuilt.
Cheers,
Tim.
02-26-2007, 02:27 PM
#2
Three Wheelin'
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Hi Tim,
Firstly, good news, my car is back and driving and sounding as mean as ever!
To answer you post, mine has 74K on it, some oil leaks (although not excessive loss) and goes well as you already know.
I had some work (fuel pipe) done today and chatted with Peter tognola who does engine rebuild work himself. He said that there is no need to assume a rebuild if it doesn't lose too much oil or there's no smoke on start up (happily he confirmed mine is not smokey!) and these engines can go on for 150K+. He did say that the turbo would likely need replacing well before, and it was of paramaount importance that the engine oil is changed regularly.
PS: Although some shops have quoted £7-10K (you know whom I mean) he reckoned to budget £4K ish unless needs piston work etc.
Firstly, good news, my car is back and driving and sounding as mean as ever!
To answer you post, mine has 74K on it, some oil leaks (although not excessive loss) and goes well as you already know.
I had some work (fuel pipe) done today and chatted with Peter tognola who does engine rebuild work himself. He said that there is no need to assume a rebuild if it doesn't lose too much oil or there's no smoke on start up (happily he confirmed mine is not smokey!) and these engines can go on for 150K+. He did say that the turbo would likely need replacing well before, and it was of paramaount importance that the engine oil is changed regularly.
PS: Although some shops have quoted £7-10K (you know whom I mean) he reckoned to budget £4K ish unless needs piston work etc.
02-26-2007, 02:51 PM
#3
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A bit of smoke on start up is normal, i'd be concerned if it didn't smoke. Those leak down numbers are good, what you will find out on your major service is if you have worn cams, that was the decision maker for my rebuild. BTW my car had been serviced like clockwork, sometimes with only a few thousand miles between, and it had the rebuild at around 100k.
02-26-2007, 04:42 PM
#4
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My car has 84K miles and had a rebuild at 36K miles, but that was a result of the previous owner burning a hole in a cylinder. In addition to a new cylinder and piston, the rebuild included new valve springs valve guides, ARP rod bolts and Raceware studs.
Control engine temperature, keep the A/F ratio in the right range and hold down the boost and you should have many more happy miles without experiencing any major financial pain.
Control engine temperature, keep the A/F ratio in the right range and hold down the boost and you should have many more happy miles without experiencing any major financial pain.
02-26-2007, 10:54 PM
#6
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Nothing concrete - thanks for the lead. John/Michelle are considering the conversion back to stock for a daily driver, but I am discouraging that. The car is very well set up for dual use, but I wouldn't call it a daily driver without more restoration than they are contemplating.
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02-27-2007, 01:51 PM
#8
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Originally Posted by 911addict
Hi Tim,
Firstly, good news, my car is back and driving and sounding as mean as ever!
To answer you post, mine has 74K on it, some oil leaks (although not excessive loss) and goes well as you already know.
I had some work (fuel pipe) done today and chatted with Peter tognola who does engine rebuild work himself. He said that there is no need to assume a rebuild if it doesn't lose too much oil or there's no smoke on start up (happily he confirmed mine is not smokey!) and these engines can go on for 150K+. He did say that the turbo would likely need replacing well before, and it was of paramaount importance that the engine oil is changed regularly.
PS: Although some shops have quoted £7-10K (you know whom I mean) he reckoned to budget £4K ish unless needs piston work etc.
Firstly, good news, my car is back and driving and sounding as mean as ever!
To answer you post, mine has 74K on it, some oil leaks (although not excessive loss) and goes well as you already know.
I had some work (fuel pipe) done today and chatted with Peter tognola who does engine rebuild work himself. He said that there is no need to assume a rebuild if it doesn't lose too much oil or there's no smoke on start up (happily he confirmed mine is not smokey!) and these engines can go on for 150K+. He did say that the turbo would likely need replacing well before, and it was of paramaount importance that the engine oil is changed regularly.
PS: Although some shops have quoted £7-10K (you know whom I mean) he reckoned to budget £4K ish unless needs piston work etc.
£4k sounds good, although this isn't one of those "go-with-the-cheapest-quote" type bits of work.
JZM reckon I need a top-end (£6k at least), with my car at 83k miles, zero smoke, zero funny noises, zero oil drips (albeit plenty of wetness coating the underside) and they themselves said the car feels as strong and as tight as it should.
This all came about because I asked them to listen to the valves and advise if they needed adjusting as its not been done during my 12k mile ownership. I like to err on the side of caution with maintenance but think this may be a little over-cautious.
However they do think the cam chains will have stretched and the valve guides will almost certainly need attention - seems plausible to me
02-27-2007, 02:24 PM
#9
Three Wheelin'
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Anthony,
As you know almost all 911's are 'wet' underneath....
If it doesn't leak (much), sounds good, and goes well, why not leave well alone?
Why do they think the camchains have stretched and the guides need doing?
PS: I'd definitely get a 2nd and 3rd opinion after JZ...
As you know almost all 911's are 'wet' underneath....
If it doesn't leak (much), sounds good, and goes well, why not leave well alone?
Why do they think the camchains have stretched and the guides need doing?
PS: I'd definitely get a 2nd and 3rd opinion after JZ...
02-27-2007, 02:29 PM
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Oh yeah, will definitely get other opinions but have no plans to do anything as the car seems perfect. Wetness underneath doesnt bother me in the slightest and at least oil is seeping out rather than anything else seeping in - same principal as bleeding!
anyway, they think the chains are stretched because they said they could hear them to be so, and the guides simply due to mileage and they all need doing at about this mileage (apparently).
I have to say though that I do and have always liked JZM and their opinions to date have always been spot on.
anyway, they think the chains are stretched because they said they could hear them to be so, and the guides simply due to mileage and they all need doing at about this mileage (apparently).
I have to say though that I do and have always liked JZM and their opinions to date have always been spot on.
02-27-2007, 06:25 PM
#11
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I think the trigger for a top-end rebuild is a poor result from a compression/leakdown test. Even if JZM have their ears tuned perfectly, I think it is still worth doing the test before anyone starts taking apart the engine. At least it gives you some insights into what needs fixing.
A good comperssion and leakdown test and I would leave the engine alone.
A good comperssion and leakdown test and I would leave the engine alone.
02-28-2007, 07:27 PM
#13
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Well mine is at 127,000 miles no rebuild. I was using JZ up o about 2 years ago but found only doing 4000 miles a year was hassle getting to and from them from Kent. ( Jonas always seemed fair and did warn well in advance of any work.) However never done work for the sake of it.
An example rear caliper overhall and new disks and pads next service ( 3 services with them since and comes up each time as not quite yet due to covering lower than expected millage.)
I think with these cars wear depends on usage town vs motorway etc. so millage is not really your guide.
An example rear caliper overhall and new disks and pads next service ( 3 services with them since and comes up each time as not quite yet due to covering lower than expected millage.)
I think with these cars wear depends on usage town vs motorway etc. so millage is not really your guide.
03-02-2007, 10:01 AM
#14
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanks for all the replies - it seems our cars can take considerable mileages without automatically needing rebuilds. 
69COU - your mileage is particularly impressive. What did JZM say about your car last time they saw it?
Besides Mark and Anthony above, we know of at least one other 965 owner who has recently been advised by JZM to have a top-end rebuild. Obviously each case is different, but I am curious as to why they seem to want to rebuild every 965 they see...
I also talked to my specialist who drove my car yesterday and was very impressed with it. He's got well over 20 years of experience working on and racing Porsches of all types, including many turbos, has owned a 965 and still looks after it. He said exactly what Mark said - they all leak oil a bit and if it's running fine then leave it alone.
Obvioulsy I'll have to wait to see what he thinks when he's got it apart in 10 days time.
Fingers crossed!
Cheers,
Tim.
69COU - your mileage is particularly impressive. What did JZM say about your car last time they saw it?
Besides Mark and Anthony above, we know of at least one other 965 owner who has recently been advised by JZM to have a top-end rebuild. Obviously each case is different, but I am curious as to why they seem to want to rebuild every 965 they see...
I also talked to my specialist who drove my car yesterday and was very impressed with it. He's got well over 20 years of experience working on and racing Porsches of all types, including many turbos, has owned a 965 and still looks after it. He said exactly what Mark said - they all leak oil a bit and if it's running fine then leave it alone.
Obvioulsy I'll have to wait to see what he thinks when he's got it apart in 10 days time.
Fingers crossed!Cheers,
Tim.
