Can 993 six speed gear box fit a 965 car
05-08-2006, 04:25 AM
#16
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the bahaviour of a N/A 993 is not the same as a turbo car when it comes to gearing. While the N/A car will benefit from shorter gears because of the low torque available coming out of turns or under acceleration, the turbo engine has very different dynamics and will be faster the longer you stay under acceleration/torque..
Depending on your traction, track configuration, driving style and engine power delivery, you might be better off with a 5 speed box, and certainly will not have any difference between a G50/20 or a G50/21. I would argue that you will be better off with the taller gears, probably you just want to shorten your 5th gear so that the maximum speed reached in straight line is at the maximum revs.
This is a great business that involves very costly changes, the benefits on a modded turbo car are however not established at all.
On the street however a 6 speed gearbox will provide you with a MUCH easier car to drive.
To reconfirm again what the other guys have said, it does fit, and I had it on my previous 965.
the bahaviour of a N/A 993 is not the same as a turbo car when it comes to gearing. While the N/A car will benefit from shorter gears because of the low torque available coming out of turns or under acceleration, the turbo engine has very different dynamics and will be faster the longer you stay under acceleration/torque..
Depending on your traction, track configuration, driving style and engine power delivery, you might be better off with a 5 speed box, and certainly will not have any difference between a G50/20 or a G50/21. I would argue that you will be better off with the taller gears, probably you just want to shorten your 5th gear so that the maximum speed reached in straight line is at the maximum revs.
This is a great business that involves very costly changes, the benefits on a modded turbo car are however not established at all.
On the street however a 6 speed gearbox will provide you with a MUCH easier car to drive.
To reconfirm again what the other guys have said, it does fit, and I had it on my previous 965.
05-08-2006, 05:16 AM
#17
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Jean, so what about a G50 from a 3.2? Still strong, 5 gear... but shorter gears?
Or for street driving/ quick off the mark would you recommend changing to shorter gears 1 and 2 on the standard 965 gearbox, or will this cause a too big gap when going to 3rd? The only reason I ask is that I find gears 1 and 2, too long, and they take me way over the speed limit! Or maybe a lightened flywheel will be enough to give that quick low end pull?
Or for street driving/ quick off the mark would you recommend changing to shorter gears 1 and 2 on the standard 965 gearbox, or will this cause a too big gap when going to 3rd? The only reason I ask is that I find gears 1 and 2, too long, and they take me way over the speed limit! Or maybe a lightened flywheel will be enough to give that quick low end pull?
05-08-2006, 05:46 AM
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If I am not mistaken the 3.2 Carrera is a G50/00 series, which, if it is the case, is not at all as solid as the G50/50 series. It will break.
I also prefer a taller 1st gear for turbos which is what the G50/50 has, 3.154 rather than the shorter 3.5 of the G50/00 series. IN fact the GT2 EVO gearboxes had taller 1st. and 2nd. gears (3.154 and 2.0 vs. 3.818 and 2.15).. People pay a LOT of money to have those two taller gears changed in their 6 speed boxes.
There is no secret formula, you need to establish what is your target speed and try to reach it at your max. (HP) revs with the lesser number of gear changes. For a quick off the mark target, certainly the 3.154 in 1st and 1.79 in 2nd. is a great combination, since you will be reaching 80+ mph with 2 gears instead of 3 that you would have with a 6 speed or a G50/00 and you will be limiting tire spin..Maybe a slightly shorter 2nd. would help since I doubt you have tire spin with a stock engine.
It is a combo of gear shifts and speed target. In high Hp engines, you also have tire spin to worry about even in 4th gear, it is pointless to shorten your gears if you cannot get traction already with the taller one.
If I am not mistaken the 3.2 Carrera is a G50/00 series, which, if it is the case, is not at all as solid as the G50/50 series. It will break.
I also prefer a taller 1st gear for turbos which is what the G50/50 has, 3.154 rather than the shorter 3.5 of the G50/00 series. IN fact the GT2 EVO gearboxes had taller 1st. and 2nd. gears (3.154 and 2.0 vs. 3.818 and 2.15).. People pay a LOT of money to have those two taller gears changed in their 6 speed boxes.
There is no secret formula, you need to establish what is your target speed and try to reach it at your max. (HP) revs with the lesser number of gear changes. For a quick off the mark target, certainly the 3.154 in 1st and 1.79 in 2nd. is a great combination, since you will be reaching 80+ mph with 2 gears instead of 3 that you would have with a 6 speed or a G50/00 and you will be limiting tire spin..Maybe a slightly shorter 2nd. would help since I doubt you have tire spin with a stock engine.
It is a combo of gear shifts and speed target. In high Hp engines, you also have tire spin to worry about even in 4th gear, it is pointless to shorten your gears if you cannot get traction already with the taller one.
05-08-2006, 06:04 AM
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Hi guys.
Yep I had my 1st track day of the year and 1st with 993 gear box + 1st street miles so here are the 1st impressions.
Street - The car is easier to drive, turbo lag is less but it does loose a bit of it's jekyl & Hide character. I would not do the conversion for the street where lag = fun !
Track - It feels really nice, turbo lag is as good as gone ! Much better engine response overall, better acceleration, you stay on higher revs but it's a bit of give and take, the gearing will of course not fit all the twists and bends of every track (they rebuild one bend on this specific track in a way that suited the old gear box perfectly and the new one not at all
).
When I think about the tracks I go to regularly it should fit better and I am confident I will get faster overall when I am used to it (I was not faster this week-end) but not in every corner
I'll let you know later in the season !
Following Staffan I could keep up in the straight now (could not last year) and I had a bit of an hedge going out of slow coners. Still Staffan is very fast with that turbo car
As for reliability we will see. The oil temp is higher (still well below last mark) with average higher rev around the track and the gear box is probably weaker.
The project took more time than planned and will end up more expensive to, so do it during the winter.
Another reflecion is that shorter gear should work better with a better turbo like the HF. You do need the last revs to have a wider power band. Always more things to buy !!!!
Yep I had my 1st track day of the year and 1st with 993 gear box + 1st street miles so here are the 1st impressions.
Street - The car is easier to drive, turbo lag is less but it does loose a bit of it's jekyl & Hide character. I would not do the conversion for the street where lag = fun !
Track - It feels really nice, turbo lag is as good as gone ! Much better engine response overall, better acceleration, you stay on higher revs but it's a bit of give and take, the gearing will of course not fit all the twists and bends of every track (they rebuild one bend on this specific track in a way that suited the old gear box perfectly and the new one not at all
).When I think about the tracks I go to regularly it should fit better and I am confident I will get faster overall when I am used to it (I was not faster this week-end) but not in every corner
I'll let you know later in the season !Following Staffan I could keep up in the straight now (could not last year) and I had a bit of an hedge going out of slow coners. Still Staffan is very fast with that turbo car
As for reliability we will see. The oil temp is higher (still well below last mark) with average higher rev around the track and the gear box is probably weaker.
The project took more time than planned and will end up more expensive to, so do it during the winter.
Another reflecion is that shorter gear should work better with a better turbo like the HF. You do need the last revs to have a wider power band. Always more things to buy !!!!
05-08-2006, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Henning964Turbo
OF: Staffan, you drove on the karlskoga track correct?
From Porsche Club Norway forum, a dude named Jo with a 996 GT3RS:
" 217 km/t på enden av raka og friske kurvehastigheter.... Hang fint med to svensker fra PCSR i hver sin modda 965 turbo med cup dekk som kjente banen godt. "
Not bad, as the RS should most likely have left you and your mate far behind on the curvy part of the track?
From Porsche Club Norway forum, a dude named Jo with a 996 GT3RS:
" 217 km/t på enden av raka og friske kurvehastigheter.... Hang fint med to svensker fra PCSR i hver sin modda 965 turbo med cup dekk som kjente banen godt. "
Not bad, as the RS should most likely have left you and your mate far behind on the curvy part of the track?
Originally Posted by 911addict
I've looked thru the archives and there's lots of info here on Rennlist turbo forum. I read that changing some of the gear cogs ratios can make a big difference. Faster response, but at the expense of top speed, but with 160 mph not a major issue.
I think the GHL headers & the K27HFS will help alot though with earlier turbo spool and no running out of puff.
Last edited by nathanUK '81 930 G50; 05-10-2006 at 01:54 PM.
05-09-2006, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by nathanUK '81 930 G50
Henning, Staffan, could you translate that to english for us please ? Sorry I am so dumb and have to ask...
"217 km/h at the end of the straight and high speed through the curves. I followed two swedes(staffan and vince5?) from PCSR(Porsche Club Sweden Racing?) in their modded 964 turbos with cup tires. They seemed know the track very well."
05-09-2006, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Henning964Turbo
Of course.
"217 km/h at the end of the straight and high speed through the curves. I followed two swedes(staffan and vince5?) from PCSR(Porsche Club Sweden Racing?) in their modded 964 turbos with cup tires. They seemed know the track very well."
"217 km/h at the end of the straight and high speed through the curves. I followed two swedes(staffan and vince5?) from PCSR(Porsche Club Sweden Racing?) in their modded 964 turbos with cup tires. They seemed know the track very well."
apart from that he should have left us far behind both in the curves (same tyres as us) and on the straights, we don't have that kind of power (yet 
) and handling (never 
)
05-09-2006, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Henning964Turbo
Of course.
"217 km/h at the end of the straight and high speed through the curves. I followed two swedes(staffan and vince5?) from PCSR(Porsche Club Sweden Racing?) in their modded 964 turbos with cup tires. They seemed know the track very well."
"217 km/h at the end of the straight and high speed through the curves. I followed two swedes(staffan and vince5?) from PCSR(Porsche Club Sweden Racing?) in their modded 964 turbos with cup tires. They seemed know the track very well."
Sorry Henning, missed your post earlier.
It was a great day, drove home with a big smile on my face high on adrenalin.
Can't believe how well these 15 year old cars handles with a good suspension (and 1.000 man hours in the garage...).
05-09-2006, 07:15 PM
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Just wandering how much you guys change DOWN to first when moving?
As I said before I find 2nd gear very long and although generally on the road take sharp corners, or rolling start from 2nd, sometimes it feels a bit sluggish. I have noticed however that if i drop it down into 1st then i can get that manic turbo acceleration!
Normally with almost any other car, you wouldn't do this, but after reading the owner handbook says you can drop to first in quite high revs safely (providing the gearbox doesn't stop you, and it feels smooth) then it seems to work well...but you have to be careful about the brutal acceleration.
Its part of the fun of these 'supercars' ...they take alot of learning...
As I said before I find 2nd gear very long and although generally on the road take sharp corners, or rolling start from 2nd, sometimes it feels a bit sluggish. I have noticed however that if i drop it down into 1st then i can get that manic turbo acceleration!
Normally with almost any other car, you wouldn't do this, but after reading the owner handbook says you can drop to first in quite high revs safely (providing the gearbox doesn't stop you, and it feels smooth) then it seems to work well...but you have to be careful about the brutal acceleration.
Its part of the fun of these 'supercars' ...they take alot of learning...
06-07-2006, 02:14 AM
#27
can someone explain briefly how does LSD plays into all this?
akkaporn - where are you located? looking for info on a transmission conversion and may eventually need a man tranmission if you are parting.
akkaporn - where are you located? looking for info on a transmission conversion and may eventually need a man tranmission if you are parting.
