94 3.6 Turbo
01-22-2006, 03:10 PM
#31
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I echo Christian here - Nothing worse than accepting an offer to make the customer happy and then still sticking it to him. Thanks for posting Straight6.
01-22-2006, 07:19 PM
#32
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I have been out of town and just saw Ray’s response. There is a football game on in Seattle in a few minutes that I plan to watch. I will address Ray’s untruths tomorrow. Please withhold judgment.
Jim
Jim
01-23-2006, 04:24 AM
#33
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Ray Joseph
Here is a copy of a post I made December 11, 2001. The facts have not changed. You can check the archives my name at that time was Jim 97 C4S. https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ght=ray+joseph
“Once again I must refute the claim that RPM Sports Cars or Ray Joseph is reputable dealer. There may be people who have had a good experience with him but my experience has cost me money and some grief.
I purchased a 97 C4S from Ray Joseph of RPM Sports Cars in Houston TX (RPMSPORTSCARS.COM). The car was represented to have had a few rock chips that had been touched up, and a scrape on the under side of the front bumper that he has touched up on all the Porsches he sells.
I live in the Seattle area, and have taken the car to three high quality body shops for opinions and estimates. All three shops say the car has been repainted, with the exception of the top of the car. Also the front bumper was replaced and done poorly. Finally, there is one hollow Turbo wheel and three C4S wheels. This indicates to me that caused a wheel to be damaged enough that it had to be replaced.
Don McGill Porsche in Houston did the pre-purchase inspection. The Service Manager, Steve Mikula, did the inspection and now says the car checked out fine but the Service Department does not look to see if cars are repainted.
Mechanically the car checks out.
The written estimates to correct the paint, bumper and wheel problem are $2931, $3440 and $11,267 (complete repaint).
Ray Joseph’s solution is to give me $500 for good will, and a C4S wheel in exchange for the Turbo wheel. He is now admitting the car did have some paintwork and the front bumper replaced; none of which was disclosed at the time of purchase. When I had the front bumper refitted, the body shop found damage to the right front frame extension.
Either Ray Joseph does not know the true condition of the cars he sells, or he lies about their condition. Any car dealer worth his salt can tell if a car has been repainted. If Ray did not know it had been repainted, I would not want to business with him. If he did know the car had been repainted and lied about it, I would not want to do business with him.
The bottom line to me is that the car is a good car, but not as good as was disclosed at the time of purchase. It will cost me to correct Ray Joseph’s misdeeds. Ray is a very slick salesman who has difficulty being truthful. It is my hope that others will avoid the frustration of dealing with this person. Assume Ray is lying and you may come out of the deal with your hide.
My experience with Ray Joseph indicates he will lie to you until he gets your money. He will then change his story when presented with facts, which dispute his claims of selling only the highest quality Porsches. He is a despicable human being and does not deserve your business.
I have three quality body shops that have proved to me that the car Ray sold me has had paintwork and minor bodywork. Until Ray makes right the misrepresentations he made to me, he will remain a crook in my book.
Ray preys on Porsche enthusiast’s dream of owning the perfect car.
Be patient and as unemotional as possible when searching for a Porsche. Get a PPI from an independent. Digital pictures are nice to use as wallpaper on a computer but not to use to buy a Porsche.
Good hunting.
Jim”
I did try to have get the Better Business Bureau and the Attorney General involved but it was a waste of time. I think you will find that if you live out of state, and buy a used car in Texas, the deal is final when the money changes hands.
I am not as angry now as I was then but I still do not like to get the shaft by a used car salesman. I kept the car for five years and it served me well. I had Steve at Queen City Auto Rebuild in Redmond correct the front end damage and buff the paint to hide some of the imperfections.
What helped me get over some of my anger was a Seattle attorney, Stan Beck. He told me that he represented a client in a case who had spent $150,000 to prove that he had been lied to about the condition of a high end car. He told me that trying to chase a car salesman out of state can get very expensive. This attorney spent 45 minutes with me on the phone and did not charge me for his advice; that proves to me he is a Porsche fanatic. So I licked my wounds and kept the car for 5 years and enjoyed it. It was a fun car; it just was not what Ray Joseph had represented. The car had been damaged, had paint work, and had the one non-turbo wheel.
The lesson that I learned is that if I do not have the time or money to go look at the car personally, then wait and buy locally.
Jim
“Once again I must refute the claim that RPM Sports Cars or Ray Joseph is reputable dealer. There may be people who have had a good experience with him but my experience has cost me money and some grief.
I purchased a 97 C4S from Ray Joseph of RPM Sports Cars in Houston TX (RPMSPORTSCARS.COM). The car was represented to have had a few rock chips that had been touched up, and a scrape on the under side of the front bumper that he has touched up on all the Porsches he sells.
I live in the Seattle area, and have taken the car to three high quality body shops for opinions and estimates. All three shops say the car has been repainted, with the exception of the top of the car. Also the front bumper was replaced and done poorly. Finally, there is one hollow Turbo wheel and three C4S wheels. This indicates to me that caused a wheel to be damaged enough that it had to be replaced.
Don McGill Porsche in Houston did the pre-purchase inspection. The Service Manager, Steve Mikula, did the inspection and now says the car checked out fine but the Service Department does not look to see if cars are repainted.
Mechanically the car checks out.
The written estimates to correct the paint, bumper and wheel problem are $2931, $3440 and $11,267 (complete repaint).
Ray Joseph’s solution is to give me $500 for good will, and a C4S wheel in exchange for the Turbo wheel. He is now admitting the car did have some paintwork and the front bumper replaced; none of which was disclosed at the time of purchase. When I had the front bumper refitted, the body shop found damage to the right front frame extension.
Either Ray Joseph does not know the true condition of the cars he sells, or he lies about their condition. Any car dealer worth his salt can tell if a car has been repainted. If Ray did not know it had been repainted, I would not want to business with him. If he did know the car had been repainted and lied about it, I would not want to do business with him.
The bottom line to me is that the car is a good car, but not as good as was disclosed at the time of purchase. It will cost me to correct Ray Joseph’s misdeeds. Ray is a very slick salesman who has difficulty being truthful. It is my hope that others will avoid the frustration of dealing with this person. Assume Ray is lying and you may come out of the deal with your hide.
My experience with Ray Joseph indicates he will lie to you until he gets your money. He will then change his story when presented with facts, which dispute his claims of selling only the highest quality Porsches. He is a despicable human being and does not deserve your business.
I have three quality body shops that have proved to me that the car Ray sold me has had paintwork and minor bodywork. Until Ray makes right the misrepresentations he made to me, he will remain a crook in my book.
Ray preys on Porsche enthusiast’s dream of owning the perfect car.
Be patient and as unemotional as possible when searching for a Porsche. Get a PPI from an independent. Digital pictures are nice to use as wallpaper on a computer but not to use to buy a Porsche.
Good hunting.
Jim”
I did try to have get the Better Business Bureau and the Attorney General involved but it was a waste of time. I think you will find that if you live out of state, and buy a used car in Texas, the deal is final when the money changes hands.
I am not as angry now as I was then but I still do not like to get the shaft by a used car salesman. I kept the car for five years and it served me well. I had Steve at Queen City Auto Rebuild in Redmond correct the front end damage and buff the paint to hide some of the imperfections.
What helped me get over some of my anger was a Seattle attorney, Stan Beck. He told me that he represented a client in a case who had spent $150,000 to prove that he had been lied to about the condition of a high end car. He told me that trying to chase a car salesman out of state can get very expensive. This attorney spent 45 minutes with me on the phone and did not charge me for his advice; that proves to me he is a Porsche fanatic. So I licked my wounds and kept the car for 5 years and enjoyed it. It was a fun car; it just was not what Ray Joseph had represented. The car had been damaged, had paint work, and had the one non-turbo wheel.
The lesson that I learned is that if I do not have the time or money to go look at the car personally, then wait and buy locally.
Jim
01-23-2006, 03:05 PM
#34
Race Car
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I would have been very unhappy about the odd wheel incident, but I guess they would just say it hit a big pot hole or something.
EDIT - I got a better idea, it was vandalised. "Someone took a cordless drill to the wheel, the car was not damaged at all. Luckily Paulie Walnuts was walking along and scared them off)
EDIT - I got a better idea, it was vandalised. "Someone took a cordless drill to the wheel, the car was not damaged at all. Luckily Paulie Walnuts was walking along and scared them off)
Last edited by nathanUK '81 930 G50; 01-23-2006 at 03:34 PM.
01-23-2006, 09:47 PM
#35
Hi Everybody--Although I really don't post on Rennlist, it appears every 5 years or so I have to muster up another response to this particular guy, so here goes-
1) In April 2000 I sold Mr. Newhall a 97 C4S with 18K miles. This car had not had any previous accidents, body damage or negative history. We did refinish the front bumper cover for stone chips and scrapes underneath. This fact was disclosed to him before his purchase. The original bumper cover was removed, refinished and replaced back on the car…the car did not receive a brand new bumper cover.
2) I heard nothing from him for over 9 months and 3,000 miles of driving. You can be sure that since he bought the car without seeing it first and had it delivered by truck, that upon receiving the car, he VERY closely checked the car from top to bottom which would be the normal thing to do in my opinion. It must have looked pretty good as I heard nothing from him for 9 months. He also sent a bottle of Crown Royal whiskey to the service manager at the Porsche dealer here in Houston that PPI’d the car to show his appreciation as he was so pleased with the car.
3) When he did contact me 9 months later he claimed that the bumper cover was “a couple mm off”….well all I know is it was correct when it left here and to what may have happened to it in 9 months and 3,000 miles later by a first time Porsche owner, WHO KNOWS!?….in my opinion most likely he scraped it underneath, bottomed it out etc and he may not even have realized it…very common. Anyway as a gesture of goodwill I offered to send him $500 to refinish the bumper cover yet again and to put the issue to rest. He accepted and I thought that was it, but NO, after he cashes my check, he bashes me on Rennlist and files complaints with the Texas Attorney General and BBB. I responded immediately to both agencies with my side of the story and both promptly closed their files regarding his complaint.
4) It is not right, fair or reasonable to contact me or anyone else 9 months and 3,000 miles later to complain about a cosmetic issue. Think about how pleased any of you would be to sell your car thousands of miles away and then hear back 9 months later about a cosmetic issue that you know was not present when you sold the car. WHY 9 MONTHS LATER??
5) He is correct on ONE point in that one of the wheels was a turbo wheel instead of a C4S wheel. Although I did not change any of the wheels on the car I had no problem with exchanging it for him which we did along with the $500 check. I have no idea why the wheel was changed by the previous owner other than it had to be limited to the wheel itself as the car had not had prior damage. Theft, vandalism, curb damage, pot hole, stained by wrong wheel cleaner or ??
6) Oh and what about those estimates of his for $2931, $3440 and $11,267?…he ended up spending $764.98 according to his claim sent to the Texas AG….of which I had already paid him $500!
7) These are his own quotes taken from his posts: “Mechanically the car checks out.”, “I kept the car for five years and it served me well", “kept the car for 5 years and enjoyed it”, "it was a fun car"
Anyway to sum it all up, I can not believe 5 years later I am responding yet again to this guy, but here I am. I can tell you the following though-
1) I would buy this car again for my inventory with pleasure.
2) I would tell anyone that may be thinking of selling to Mr. Newhall to think twice as you most likely will hear about it for another 5-10 yrs.
I am here for 23 years at the same phone number doing what I have always done and that is deliver some of the very best cars period. Not always the cheapest for sure, because my buying prices are certainly not the lowest, but some of the very best cars.
To all my clients that enjoy coming by to see all of my unique Porsches and to the many more that have bought without coming to Houston, I appreciate all of the kind words and your business since 1983. I feel pleased that I have made 99.9% of you very happy.
regards Ray Joseph
This will be my last post on this matter.
1) In April 2000 I sold Mr. Newhall a 97 C4S with 18K miles. This car had not had any previous accidents, body damage or negative history. We did refinish the front bumper cover for stone chips and scrapes underneath. This fact was disclosed to him before his purchase. The original bumper cover was removed, refinished and replaced back on the car…the car did not receive a brand new bumper cover.
2) I heard nothing from him for over 9 months and 3,000 miles of driving. You can be sure that since he bought the car without seeing it first and had it delivered by truck, that upon receiving the car, he VERY closely checked the car from top to bottom which would be the normal thing to do in my opinion. It must have looked pretty good as I heard nothing from him for 9 months. He also sent a bottle of Crown Royal whiskey to the service manager at the Porsche dealer here in Houston that PPI’d the car to show his appreciation as he was so pleased with the car.
3) When he did contact me 9 months later he claimed that the bumper cover was “a couple mm off”….well all I know is it was correct when it left here and to what may have happened to it in 9 months and 3,000 miles later by a first time Porsche owner, WHO KNOWS!?….in my opinion most likely he scraped it underneath, bottomed it out etc and he may not even have realized it…very common. Anyway as a gesture of goodwill I offered to send him $500 to refinish the bumper cover yet again and to put the issue to rest. He accepted and I thought that was it, but NO, after he cashes my check, he bashes me on Rennlist and files complaints with the Texas Attorney General and BBB. I responded immediately to both agencies with my side of the story and both promptly closed their files regarding his complaint.
4) It is not right, fair or reasonable to contact me or anyone else 9 months and 3,000 miles later to complain about a cosmetic issue. Think about how pleased any of you would be to sell your car thousands of miles away and then hear back 9 months later about a cosmetic issue that you know was not present when you sold the car. WHY 9 MONTHS LATER??
5) He is correct on ONE point in that one of the wheels was a turbo wheel instead of a C4S wheel. Although I did not change any of the wheels on the car I had no problem with exchanging it for him which we did along with the $500 check. I have no idea why the wheel was changed by the previous owner other than it had to be limited to the wheel itself as the car had not had prior damage. Theft, vandalism, curb damage, pot hole, stained by wrong wheel cleaner or ??
6) Oh and what about those estimates of his for $2931, $3440 and $11,267?…he ended up spending $764.98 according to his claim sent to the Texas AG….of which I had already paid him $500!
7) These are his own quotes taken from his posts: “Mechanically the car checks out.”, “I kept the car for five years and it served me well", “kept the car for 5 years and enjoyed it”, "it was a fun car"
Anyway to sum it all up, I can not believe 5 years later I am responding yet again to this guy, but here I am. I can tell you the following though-
1) I would buy this car again for my inventory with pleasure.
2) I would tell anyone that may be thinking of selling to Mr. Newhall to think twice as you most likely will hear about it for another 5-10 yrs.
I am here for 23 years at the same phone number doing what I have always done and that is deliver some of the very best cars period. Not always the cheapest for sure, because my buying prices are certainly not the lowest, but some of the very best cars.
To all my clients that enjoy coming by to see all of my unique Porsches and to the many more that have bought without coming to Houston, I appreciate all of the kind words and your business since 1983. I feel pleased that I have made 99.9% of you very happy.
regards Ray Joseph
This will be my last post on this matter.
01-23-2006, 11:45 PM
#36
Track Day
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Ray Josepph
Ray you just keep repeating the same untruths. I stand by my post and all the information in it. I am not here to get money from you or get you to do the right thing; you already decided not to do those things five years ago. You are nothing to but a bad memory and a learning experience. But if someone at Rennlist asks for an opinion of your product or how you do business, I will share what my experience was. It is up to them to make there own decisions.
Jim
Jim
01-26-2006, 09:52 PM
#42
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Rennlist Member
The clutch job was for performance reasons not wear. I replaced the dual mass fly wheel and went with the carrera rs clutch package and the difference in spool up is amazing. The old one is in a box in the garage incase one day soembody wants to go back stock:-)
