Converting my 3.6T to EFI questions!
07-08-2005, 03:24 PM
#46
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
thanks Geofrrey again ill keep it simple!
Hey Sameer,
heres a pic of someones 3.2 inlet with looks like a 930 IC... you can see they have cut the TB and rotated it to try and get it to fit.
Hey Sameer,
heres a pic of someones 3.2 inlet with looks like a 930 IC... you can see they have cut the TB and rotated it to try and get it to fit.
07-08-2005, 03:43 PM
#47
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Miles, great project. I think you are doing the right thing, as discussed months back, this is your only and best way to achieve what you are looking for, pushing the CIS further will put your engine at risk and drivability will not be as good. I am guessing you are going with a full bay intercooler while you are in there? If you can find a plastic intake manifold it is even better and use a bored N/A throttle body. Keep updates coming 
07-09-2005, 04:44 AM
#49
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Jean
Miles, great project. I think you are doing the right thing, as discussed months back, this is your only and best way to achieve what you are looking for, pushing the CIS further will put your engine at risk and drivability will not be as good. I am guessing you are going with a full bay intercooler while you are in there? If you can find a plastic intake manifold it is even better and use a bored N/A throttle body. Keep updates coming
The plastic intake is a 964 one, the bolt pattern is 3 instead of two and it wont make much difference unless im shooting for over 700.
Sameer :
Not sure what you mean, if you keep your current IC you would leave the turbo -> IC plumbing alone and just need to plumb the outlet of the IC to the TB. I will have to create all new plumbing if i get the bell IC.
oh i seem to have ended up with 3 left side fuel rails! i cant get hold of the right one yet. but if need 1 give me a shout.
07-09-2005, 05:30 AM
#50
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Miles
I have seen your posts here and other forums, a lot of good advice has been given by expert builders and tuners.
I will just add my 2 cents. Plastic intakes flow better, whenever you can improve intake flow you will benefit, even in a turbocharged engine (although less critical), more beyond 700hp obviously as it is calculated as a percentage. All the intake manifolds built by Porsche since the 3.2 and early 964 have been plastic, and it is not for cost savings alone. Bolt pattern adaptors are available in some US outfits. The same applies to minimum backpressure exhaust, critical.
Although (maybe) not really needed, a larger intercooler will be definitely better, yours was not designed to withstand the CFMs you will be flowing, you will have better efficiency and therefore less boost needed for a certain hp level, which in turn reduces intake temps and keeps the engine efficiency up there, this is (improve efficiency as much as possible) the most critical aspect of a good engine vs. an average one, both giving you 500 BHP. I am guessing you are moving to a better turbo than the current one? A larger intercooler will help cool better as the surface increases, provided you are using a well designed core and tanks. There is of course a relationship you want to maintain to avoid pressure drops too much, this is why they recommend not going larger than needed. A good tuner will be able to help you out determining the right size.
Finally, it would not be a bad idea to check a Motronic setup before deciding going to an aftermarket ECU.
Just a few points I thought I would share. Regardless, this is a great mod you are doing!
I have seen your posts here and other forums, a lot of good advice has been given by expert builders and tuners.
I will just add my 2 cents. Plastic intakes flow better, whenever you can improve intake flow you will benefit, even in a turbocharged engine (although less critical), more beyond 700hp obviously as it is calculated as a percentage. All the intake manifolds built by Porsche since the 3.2 and early 964 have been plastic, and it is not for cost savings alone. Bolt pattern adaptors are available in some US outfits. The same applies to minimum backpressure exhaust, critical.
Although (maybe) not really needed, a larger intercooler will be definitely better, yours was not designed to withstand the CFMs you will be flowing, you will have better efficiency and therefore less boost needed for a certain hp level, which in turn reduces intake temps and keeps the engine efficiency up there, this is (improve efficiency as much as possible) the most critical aspect of a good engine vs. an average one, both giving you 500 BHP. I am guessing you are moving to a better turbo than the current one? A larger intercooler will help cool better as the surface increases, provided you are using a well designed core and tanks. There is of course a relationship you want to maintain to avoid pressure drops too much, this is why they recommend not going larger than needed. A good tuner will be able to help you out determining the right size.
Finally, it would not be a bad idea to check a Motronic setup before deciding going to an aftermarket ECU.
Just a few points I thought I would share. Regardless, this is a great mod you are doing!
07-09-2005, 07:58 AM
#51
Jean,
You are correct saying that the plastic manifolds flow more air than the 3.2(I think abt 10% more) but from what we read, the plastic manifolds has a flap in it which tends to break and go into the engine I think or turbo..something like dat.
You are correct saying that the plastic manifolds flow more air than the 3.2(I think abt 10% more) but from what we read, the plastic manifolds has a flap in it which tends to break and go into the engine I think or turbo..something like dat.
07-09-2005, 08:01 AM
#52
Jean,
Sorry this is what I gathered from the post on the second page of this page:
Miles, the 3.2 Carrera intake will not be a limiting factor in your configuration, it will support over 850hp. However, I have noticed that the engines that I've tuned with the 964 plastic manifold did make slightly more power. You will have to deal with the factory 964 resonance flap and I've pinned them shut and I've activated them using an ECU output at the factory RPM of 5500. There also have been instances where the flap has failed and parts have gone through the engine. The 993TT removes the resonance flap an installs a what is essentially a block off plate. You also may need to cut down the manifold to clear the chassis.
Sorry this is what I gathered from the post on the second page of this page:
Miles, the 3.2 Carrera intake will not be a limiting factor in your configuration, it will support over 850hp. However, I have noticed that the engines that I've tuned with the 964 plastic manifold did make slightly more power. You will have to deal with the factory 964 resonance flap and I've pinned them shut and I've activated them using an ECU output at the factory RPM of 5500. There also have been instances where the flap has failed and parts have gone through the engine. The 993TT removes the resonance flap an installs a what is essentially a block off plate. You also may need to cut down the manifold to clear the chassis.
07-09-2005, 08:13 AM
#53
Miles how abt injector blocks? Which ones you going for? The 3.2 carrera blocks are plastic correct? Also I will be porting the injector blocks to 41mm to match the intake but isit ok if I have it tapered down to 32mm to match my cylinder heads? so from 41mm tapered down to 32mm? I dont want to drop the engine and opening up the cylinder heads will increase lag.
07-09-2005, 08:42 AM
#54
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Sorry I did not read all the posts but what is being said above is true, my car has a modified Carrera N/A plastic intake. Also true that the Carrera intake will support all the air flow you throw at it and has nice long runners. I was focusing more on efficiency, a (rather) 12-13% improvement in flow is substantial, it is the small things here and there that will make a difference when added together, and let you boost a 1 Bar instead of 1.1-1.2 to achieve the same torque.
07-09-2005, 09:08 AM
#55
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
thanks jean for your input, i have the 3.2 parts already and think i will need more money and time to go the 964 route- i want to get it running then i can always upgrade the rest and also compare differences too. So i will see how it goes but im sure if we are talking effciency then i like your route and mind of thought of gaining as much power with effeicency... so will look into that after the efi is done.
With the 3.2 you can just bolt it on (need thermal spacers tho ive been told) and Sameer i dont need injector blocks as the injectors just fit into the manifold- its all one piece.
One good point is that i dont want to drop the engine and was going to carefully port out to 41mm from 38mm by hand or taper inside the manifold down to it.... perhaps i will taper first as then i cant screw up so easily! Also will it increase lag? I think marcs 700HP one was ported and he said he has zero lag (mainly due to the twin garrets hes got)
With the 3.2 you can just bolt it on (need thermal spacers tho ive been told) and Sameer i dont need injector blocks as the injectors just fit into the manifold- its all one piece.
One good point is that i dont want to drop the engine and was going to carefully port out to 41mm from 38mm by hand or taper inside the manifold down to it.... perhaps i will taper first as then i cant screw up so easily! Also will it increase lag? I think marcs 700HP one was ported and he said he has zero lag (mainly due to the twin garrets hes got)