997 GT3 for 964 Turbo
12-11-2023, 11:00 AM
#1
997 GT3 for 964 Turbo
Hi All - one of those opinion sought questions - looking to consolidate the collection and have located a really nice 964 turbo 3.3. Early car without airbags. Trade off between this and an equally clean and unstoried 997 GT3. I am aware that the cars are vastly different to drive but suspect that the 964 may be the more usable - not to mention better at retaining value? Thoughts and comments welcome - thanks!!
12-11-2023, 11:22 AM
#2
Rennlist Member
If it has no airbags I am assuming it is a RoW car? All US spec 964 turbos came with passenger and driver air-bags. Very different cars both fun in different ways. Depending on car and miles either can hold their value. You have to decide what best suits your needs. I prefer the turbo for street use as it can be enjoyed more at any speed. I find with the GT cars they need to be driven in triple digits to get the same satisfaction from them.
GL
GL
12-11-2023, 11:41 AM
#3
Hi Anthony, thanks for your response - that sort of mirrors what I am expecting. The 997 is a superb car - at its best on track yet slow by modern standards. One way ticket to jail if you exploit it on the street. The 964 seems a good compromise between the G-body car and the 993 but also better able to traverse speed humps, kerbs and other obstacles that limit usability for a GT. That single turbo hit is also quite additive in that the later cars are far more linear in their power delivery.
12-11-2023, 02:05 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
I own both of these cars.
20 yr ownership of our 1991 3.3 964 Turbo,... and now into 6 yrs ownership in our 2010 997.2 GT3.
I disagree with the notion that the 964 Turbo is enjoyed more at any speed. In fact it is just the opposite as the 997 GT3 has so much more personality at low speeds that I find the hairs on my arm stand up WAY more at slow speeds verses the 964 Turbo. The Turbo is an executive car. The 964 Turbo is comfortable and can be driven leisurely. After all these years we still love that car & will not part with it. There are many days when we wake up (or decide the night before), that the drive we are about to take, is better suited to a more leisurely approach. We still put plenty of miles on that car every year, and still very much enjoy the friends we have found by owning it. Two years ago I embarked on a journey to really improve the car, so I spent over $20K pulling the engine & tranny, upgrading the suspension to KW v3, replacing many worn rubber bits, bolts, parts, etc,.. as well as having dry ice blasting & vapor honing performed underneath (that transformed the car btw!!). I hope to bring that car to the 2024 PCA Birmingham Alabama Concours and go after the illustrious 300 point Gmünd Level of Achievement. I reached 299 points with my 2010 GT3 at PCA French Lick in 2021, and think it will be fun to go after the same with the 964 Turbo.
Like most 997 GT3 owners, the only mod I have on that car is to remove one of the 3 mufflers (way too much exhaust restriction with three mufflers), so I have the Sharkwerks Center Bypass. I have retained the two side mufflers along with the exhaust valves because my wife & I like to leave our garage/driveway and community in quiet mode (while we're warming the engine & oil up). Then as we ease into enjoying the much larger rev range of the GT3, the sound really wakes up. Then of course you have the hydraulic steering giving sooo much feedback up through the steering wheel, that I feel that car is much more engaging at street legal speeds (verses the docile 964 Turbo).
So as Tony said above, it really depends on what you want to use the car for, and what you expect to get out of the ownership. We really only drive on fair weather weekend jaunts,.. and do a lot of that with the PCA club. I did just enjoy a 2 week trip with 10 other PCA friends (6 cars) who all own exhilarating versions of Porsche cars,.. and we did a ENTIRELY back road trip from West Virginia, down through all the Mtn roads, into the NC Smokey Mountains, and drove a LOT of the famously named roads down there (Tail of the Dragon, Back of the Dragon, Rattler, Moonshiner, Devils Whip, Diamond Back, and many more). It was a BUCKET LIST trip for me,... and to giv perspective, I did not listen to a SINGLE song on the sound system the entire trip. It was all windows down, engine/exhaust/gear sounds the entire trip. I took the GT3, and would take that car again in a heartbeat. My wife did not go, so it was all me & the car. It would not have been as fun in the 964.
We have been PCA members for 26 yrs, and she enjoys driving both cars just as much as I do. So I will also add this,.... she prefers to drive the 964 Turbo. She says it feels like her comfortable slippers that she's known for decades,... and she feels very much at home pushing that car hard through the twisties. The GT3 has so much more personality, such as with all the extra suspension & steering feedback, engine & exhaust sound, mechanical notchiness of the shifting, stiffer clutch, etc etc,... that she says the 964 Turbo gives her more overall pleasurable experience. She can back off & still feel like the car does the same thing (per her inputs),... whereas the GT3 is the kinda car where,... when you let your focus ease up, the car will sorta say to you "HEY!! pay attention to me,... focus on driving me". It demands more, and thus gives much more back when you are really driving for the sake of driving. I LOVE that. My wife does not like it when she eases up, and then misses a gear. The GT3 really wants to be driven at 8/10's all the time. So she will ask to drive the GT3 mostly when she knows she can push it hard for an hour,... then hand the car back over to me.
I hope that helps. Ask me anything. I'll try to give you my best comparison between the 2 cars.
=Steve
20 yr ownership of our 1991 3.3 964 Turbo,... and now into 6 yrs ownership in our 2010 997.2 GT3.
I disagree with the notion that the 964 Turbo is enjoyed more at any speed. In fact it is just the opposite as the 997 GT3 has so much more personality at low speeds that I find the hairs on my arm stand up WAY more at slow speeds verses the 964 Turbo. The Turbo is an executive car. The 964 Turbo is comfortable and can be driven leisurely. After all these years we still love that car & will not part with it. There are many days when we wake up (or decide the night before), that the drive we are about to take, is better suited to a more leisurely approach. We still put plenty of miles on that car every year, and still very much enjoy the friends we have found by owning it. Two years ago I embarked on a journey to really improve the car, so I spent over $20K pulling the engine & tranny, upgrading the suspension to KW v3, replacing many worn rubber bits, bolts, parts, etc,.. as well as having dry ice blasting & vapor honing performed underneath (that transformed the car btw!!). I hope to bring that car to the 2024 PCA Birmingham Alabama Concours and go after the illustrious 300 point Gmünd Level of Achievement. I reached 299 points with my 2010 GT3 at PCA French Lick in 2021, and think it will be fun to go after the same with the 964 Turbo.
Like most 997 GT3 owners, the only mod I have on that car is to remove one of the 3 mufflers (way too much exhaust restriction with three mufflers), so I have the Sharkwerks Center Bypass. I have retained the two side mufflers along with the exhaust valves because my wife & I like to leave our garage/driveway and community in quiet mode (while we're warming the engine & oil up). Then as we ease into enjoying the much larger rev range of the GT3, the sound really wakes up. Then of course you have the hydraulic steering giving sooo much feedback up through the steering wheel, that I feel that car is much more engaging at street legal speeds (verses the docile 964 Turbo).
So as Tony said above, it really depends on what you want to use the car for, and what you expect to get out of the ownership. We really only drive on fair weather weekend jaunts,.. and do a lot of that with the PCA club. I did just enjoy a 2 week trip with 10 other PCA friends (6 cars) who all own exhilarating versions of Porsche cars,.. and we did a ENTIRELY back road trip from West Virginia, down through all the Mtn roads, into the NC Smokey Mountains, and drove a LOT of the famously named roads down there (Tail of the Dragon, Back of the Dragon, Rattler, Moonshiner, Devils Whip, Diamond Back, and many more). It was a BUCKET LIST trip for me,... and to giv perspective, I did not listen to a SINGLE song on the sound system the entire trip. It was all windows down, engine/exhaust/gear sounds the entire trip. I took the GT3, and would take that car again in a heartbeat. My wife did not go, so it was all me & the car. It would not have been as fun in the 964.
We have been PCA members for 26 yrs, and she enjoys driving both cars just as much as I do. So I will also add this,.... she prefers to drive the 964 Turbo. She says it feels like her comfortable slippers that she's known for decades,... and she feels very much at home pushing that car hard through the twisties. The GT3 has so much more personality, such as with all the extra suspension & steering feedback, engine & exhaust sound, mechanical notchiness of the shifting, stiffer clutch, etc etc,... that she says the 964 Turbo gives her more overall pleasurable experience. She can back off & still feel like the car does the same thing (per her inputs),... whereas the GT3 is the kinda car where,... when you let your focus ease up, the car will sorta say to you "HEY!! pay attention to me,... focus on driving me". It demands more, and thus gives much more back when you are really driving for the sake of driving. I LOVE that. My wife does not like it when she eases up, and then misses a gear. The GT3 really wants to be driven at 8/10's all the time. So she will ask to drive the GT3 mostly when she knows she can push it hard for an hour,... then hand the car back over to me.
I hope that helps. Ask me anything. I'll try to give you my best comparison between the 2 cars.
=Steve
Last edited by bweSteve; 12-11-2023 at 02:06 PM.
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12-11-2023, 06:09 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
Is there a way you can drive or ride in both cars - even if not the exact ones you're considering? bweSteve has both so it's hard to argue with him..BUT likes/dislikes etc etc etc can be subjective so it really is a personal preference thing.
Brandon
'91 Turbo
Brandon
'91 Turbo
12-12-2023, 02:29 AM
#6
Steve's reply is spot on - the GT3 is a car that demands you to be present - it isn't well suited to mooching along however oozes character nonetheless. I have driven both cars - each is special but in vastly different ways. The aircooled cars truly are those well worn and comfortable shoes that you always reach for so that analogy is completely on point. Unfortunately we are faced with the need to trim the current collection (997GT3, 997TT, 997C4S, 993NB, 981BS) to limit non-essential surprise spends (the joys of downscaling for retirement!) and I'd like to have three cars that we can drive, maintain (myself for all but major work), afford, and still enjoy well into my dotage, assuming that I am so blessed. A bonus would be a car that has the potential to top up retirement funding when it is time to sell. The 981BS is my other half's car and will leave the garage at peril to my nether regions... Sorry for the tome but perhaps this provides a bit more context.
12-12-2023, 11:23 AM
#7
Rennlist Member
Steve,
This is interesting. I wonder if the differences between the 3.3 and 3.6 might skew my feelings. My son works for a Porsche dealership and he drives everything imaginable. He is in agreement with me that the 3.6T is one of the best and unique cars Porsche ever made. The only modern Porsche (current offerings) I would consider and he agrees is the new Dakar. What a unique and fun toy. He also feels the 964 is more engaging than most any of them. He loves speed but would give up his Cayman S or our GT4 for any 964 any day. he hopes to one day head their classic dept and focus on the air-cooled era cars. We were considering buying a GT3 for track duty but we unanimously settled on a GT4 and my son will be club racing the 964 C2. He was already keeping pace or passing most Gt3's, GT4 RS's and Club sports in his cayman S with some mods I did. He would loose in the straights but out pace them in the corners and put down similar lap times if not faster. I am so jealous of his driving skills.
I wish I had the roads to enjoy these cars as I used to. Congestion has slowly destroyed our local roads and I have to drive 15-20 min to really open them up but the enforcement levels have increased making it hard to enjoy as we used to. I find the GT cars including my GT4 to be far more mechanical and direct than the turbo or 964. It is interesting as I find the turbo takes more focus to drive slow than fast. The C2 even more so as youa re constantly rowing gears to keep the speed up. Once it gets up to the triple digit area it hunkers down and becomes far more stable than at the lower speeds. A slight press of the gas and the boost comes on like a banshee no high revving car does the same thing for me irrespective of which is faster. No need to wind it out to the last thousand RPM's to get that rush. I find the GT cars are so easy to drive at any speed and that is why I prefer the older cars.
In no way am I saying that one is better than the other. I find the turbo is like a vinyl analog record and the GT cars are like a Digital CD. If I had the perfect day with clear skies and cool weather either the turbo or 964 C2 come out. On back road cruises with friends the C2 and turbo are far more engaging for me and require my full attention the GT4 or even the Boxster GTS are far more laid back and do a lot of the work for me. The GT4 or other GT cars I have driven are quite tame unless when cruising around at high speeds. I don't need to focus as much on what I am doing and can have distractions. I guess that is what I like about the older cars I am 100% engaged when driving them all the time vs the GT's which I only have the feeling when pushing the car to the limits.
A friend recently picked up a 24 GT3RS. I m in awe of the car and can only imagine what it is like at speed on track but it is so overly complicated and as much as I respect it and would love to have one I wouldn't trade my turbo for one. IMO they broke the mold with the 964. Even the 993's are too GT for me and the feeling I get when driving these 90 eras cars will always be what I gravitate towards despite their shortcomings and limitations.
Pretty much saying the same thing so it all depends on what you want from the experience.
Steve. I can't make this year maybe I will make it for Judging but I had 299.6 at Kalahari with only 2 hours to prep my car after it sat outside in the rain all night and lost to the car that had 4 people cleaning it for 26 hours indoors by .2 points. My friend who I compete with locally took Best in show that year. It would be nice to achieve that illustrious Gmünd award to put next to my Stuttgart's.
This is interesting. I wonder if the differences between the 3.3 and 3.6 might skew my feelings. My son works for a Porsche dealership and he drives everything imaginable. He is in agreement with me that the 3.6T is one of the best and unique cars Porsche ever made. The only modern Porsche (current offerings) I would consider and he agrees is the new Dakar. What a unique and fun toy. He also feels the 964 is more engaging than most any of them. He loves speed but would give up his Cayman S or our GT4 for any 964 any day. he hopes to one day head their classic dept and focus on the air-cooled era cars. We were considering buying a GT3 for track duty but we unanimously settled on a GT4 and my son will be club racing the 964 C2. He was already keeping pace or passing most Gt3's, GT4 RS's and Club sports in his cayman S with some mods I did. He would loose in the straights but out pace them in the corners and put down similar lap times if not faster. I am so jealous of his driving skills.
I wish I had the roads to enjoy these cars as I used to. Congestion has slowly destroyed our local roads and I have to drive 15-20 min to really open them up but the enforcement levels have increased making it hard to enjoy as we used to. I find the GT cars including my GT4 to be far more mechanical and direct than the turbo or 964. It is interesting as I find the turbo takes more focus to drive slow than fast. The C2 even more so as youa re constantly rowing gears to keep the speed up. Once it gets up to the triple digit area it hunkers down and becomes far more stable than at the lower speeds. A slight press of the gas and the boost comes on like a banshee no high revving car does the same thing for me irrespective of which is faster. No need to wind it out to the last thousand RPM's to get that rush. I find the GT cars are so easy to drive at any speed and that is why I prefer the older cars.
In no way am I saying that one is better than the other. I find the turbo is like a vinyl analog record and the GT cars are like a Digital CD. If I had the perfect day with clear skies and cool weather either the turbo or 964 C2 come out. On back road cruises with friends the C2 and turbo are far more engaging for me and require my full attention the GT4 or even the Boxster GTS are far more laid back and do a lot of the work for me. The GT4 or other GT cars I have driven are quite tame unless when cruising around at high speeds. I don't need to focus as much on what I am doing and can have distractions. I guess that is what I like about the older cars I am 100% engaged when driving them all the time vs the GT's which I only have the feeling when pushing the car to the limits.
A friend recently picked up a 24 GT3RS. I m in awe of the car and can only imagine what it is like at speed on track but it is so overly complicated and as much as I respect it and would love to have one I wouldn't trade my turbo for one. IMO they broke the mold with the 964. Even the 993's are too GT for me and the feeling I get when driving these 90 eras cars will always be what I gravitate towards despite their shortcomings and limitations.
Pretty much saying the same thing so it all depends on what you want from the experience.
Steve. I can't make this year maybe I will make it for Judging but I had 299.6 at Kalahari with only 2 hours to prep my car after it sat outside in the rain all night and lost to the car that had 4 people cleaning it for 26 hours indoors by .2 points. My friend who I compete with locally took Best in show that year. It would be nice to achieve that illustrious Gmünd award to put next to my Stuttgart's.
Last edited by cobalt; 12-12-2023 at 11:45 AM.
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12-13-2023, 01:07 AM
#8
Rennlist Member
All good points and I agree with all of them. And certainly I do not "value" one more than the other. They serve different moods, and we are keeping both. We are blessed to have had all these decades to hone our wants/desires with Porsche cars (lots of friends letting us drive theirs too). and now we have them both to choose from. At this point in our lives (recent retirement), I do not feel the need to add any more.
But, I also feel the need to point out ..... that when you talk about a GT4, there is a serious amount of new technology that was developed between 2009 and 2016. To me, there is a huuuuge difference between my 2010 GT3 and a 2016 GT4. I've spent a lot of time in 981 GT4's, and in my opinion they are a lot more civilized. One way to put it, is that they are almost too good for my liking. Same with the 991 GT cars. To me the turning point is the 997 (for 911's). That's where the truly raw & visceral ends. Even my 997.2 (2010) is less raw than the 997.1 (2007). I have a very close friend who owns a slightly modified 997.1 GT3 and I absolutely love it. Even though the 3.6 might pull a little less than my 3.8 (you can definitely feel the torque difference), it is still an absolute blast to run through our back roads. And the sound is slightly different too (albeit I kinda prefer the Mezger Port Injected M97.77 in my 2010) which seems to have a more pure wail tone to it ... but then again that could just be the exhaust setup differences. If there was any other car I would love to add to my stable, it would be a 2007 GT3RS. I believe I would really love the free reving lightweight flywheel in that car.
anyway ... tomato tomAto. For Bushbaby, I would think it all boils down to the use cases in which you plan to enjoy the cars in your stable.
But, I also feel the need to point out ..... that when you talk about a GT4, there is a serious amount of new technology that was developed between 2009 and 2016. To me, there is a huuuuge difference between my 2010 GT3 and a 2016 GT4. I've spent a lot of time in 981 GT4's, and in my opinion they are a lot more civilized. One way to put it, is that they are almost too good for my liking. Same with the 991 GT cars. To me the turning point is the 997 (for 911's). That's where the truly raw & visceral ends. Even my 997.2 (2010) is less raw than the 997.1 (2007). I have a very close friend who owns a slightly modified 997.1 GT3 and I absolutely love it. Even though the 3.6 might pull a little less than my 3.8 (you can definitely feel the torque difference), it is still an absolute blast to run through our back roads. And the sound is slightly different too (albeit I kinda prefer the Mezger Port Injected M97.77 in my 2010) which seems to have a more pure wail tone to it ... but then again that could just be the exhaust setup differences. If there was any other car I would love to add to my stable, it would be a 2007 GT3RS. I believe I would really love the free reving lightweight flywheel in that car.
anyway ... tomato tomAto. For Bushbaby, I would think it all boils down to the use cases in which you plan to enjoy the cars in your stable.
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Bushbaby (12-13-2023)
12-13-2023, 10:25 AM
#9
Rennlist Member
Getting a bit off topic. IMO the GT4 has its shortcomings which will over time be worked out. Already had conversations about converting the rear suspension to multi link. I only purchased it because it was far too good of a deal. 3k original miles and considerably less than market. low optioned car I can make into what I want. Sadly it is the closest thing to a #1 car I have seen in a long time. Not a blemish with full PPF and ceramic coat. Too me the 911's have gotten just too big and even the GT4 is a large car compared to the 964's and even my 928. I have a cover to a 997 GT2 and it won't fit over the GT4.
I picked up the GT4 to become our new shared track car between my son, wife and myself along with the 964 my son will be racing. Eventually my son will purchase the GT4 from me it is his favorite modern Porsche. I prefer the GT4 on track and yes it is so much easier to drive than the 964's but he has to work to keep up with the higher HP cars we see today. I will have the Blue Meanie up and running this year and with estimated 600 whp in a 964 RSR body it should thrill like nothing else. With its 330whp engine it was already pulling on 997 & 991 GT3's on track. I like the GT3's but for track duty I find the GT4 suits my need best and 991GT3RS is out of my budget. My son is already passing advanced drivers in their GT3's I suspect with the added power and brakes he will be blowing by them now. We all have our preferences and I appreciate the GT3's but I find the 981 platform in general to be the closest and most engaging variant of the 2000 on up platforms. The closest experience i get to the 964. I don't get that rise out of the 911's anymore just too many nannies and lack of feedback. I spent a day at Monticello racetrack and we drove a 991T, a 991GT3 and a 992 GTS back to back. The 992 was amazingly capable. The 991T was the slowest but I walked away liking the 991T the best as it gave the most feedback and edge of the seat thrill despite it being the slowest.
So we can all take away something different from driving these and this is the dilemma. You have to drive each variant and see what best suits your needs. The old turbos are clunky and crude compared to todays cars and some will prefer the craziness of a 930 vs the 964T. Finding what suits your needs is the game and if played well you will end up with a car that might be the one. For me it will always be the 94T. Irrespective of how capable other cars may be.
I picked up the GT4 to become our new shared track car between my son, wife and myself along with the 964 my son will be racing. Eventually my son will purchase the GT4 from me it is his favorite modern Porsche. I prefer the GT4 on track and yes it is so much easier to drive than the 964's but he has to work to keep up with the higher HP cars we see today. I will have the Blue Meanie up and running this year and with estimated 600 whp in a 964 RSR body it should thrill like nothing else. With its 330whp engine it was already pulling on 997 & 991 GT3's on track. I like the GT3's but for track duty I find the GT4 suits my need best and 991GT3RS is out of my budget. My son is already passing advanced drivers in their GT3's I suspect with the added power and brakes he will be blowing by them now. We all have our preferences and I appreciate the GT3's but I find the 981 platform in general to be the closest and most engaging variant of the 2000 on up platforms. The closest experience i get to the 964. I don't get that rise out of the 911's anymore just too many nannies and lack of feedback. I spent a day at Monticello racetrack and we drove a 991T, a 991GT3 and a 992 GTS back to back. The 992 was amazingly capable. The 991T was the slowest but I walked away liking the 991T the best as it gave the most feedback and edge of the seat thrill despite it being the slowest.
So we can all take away something different from driving these and this is the dilemma. You have to drive each variant and see what best suits your needs. The old turbos are clunky and crude compared to todays cars and some will prefer the craziness of a 930 vs the 964T. Finding what suits your needs is the game and if played well you will end up with a car that might be the one. For me it will always be the 94T. Irrespective of how capable other cars may be.
12-13-2023, 05:45 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
track competition, chasing laps times & beating others around the circuit for points,... yea, for sure all good reasons to go mid-engine GT.
All together different use-case from me. Bushbaby should chime back in & better describe his/her desire / use-case
All together different use-case from me. Bushbaby should chime back in & better describe his/her desire / use-case
12-14-2023, 10:14 AM
#11
Rennlist Member
Thank goodness there is more preference and flavors than plain vanilla and chocolate. Until you drive them you won't know for sure. All great cars with different pros and cons.
12-14-2023, 11:24 AM
#12
Use case information - tricky one really - the brace of 997s is intended to maximise the bandwidth across the generation, from a GT to a track special with an all purpose car in between. This objective became a bit murky with the addition of the 993 and has since morphed into one where range of driving experience is to be subordinated to chasing potential upside in a collectible that can at the same time be enjoyed as part of a two or three car garage. Not sure if this helps...
12-14-2023, 11:42 AM
#13
Rennlist Member
I never advise buying a car as an investment. I purchased my cars because it was what I enjoyed. I always new values would go up as they always have in the past but I never expected 1000% increase in 20 years. Your GT3 will hold its value no doubt so will most 964's. however finiding an honest clean car like Steve's or mine is not such an easy task and I have seen countless people buy the wrong car as an investment.
I have a pretty good eye about these cars since I have worked on countless and see them from every extreme and angle. I can usually pick up on photos what many miss seeing the car in person.
I will offer my help if needed. I have helped countless buy these over the years. There was only one car I was wrong about out of so many. I thought it had more damage than it actually did. I suggested to the buyer that he look into it closer and the seller got pissy with him. It ended up being damaged but not as bad as I thought. The buyer was happy passing on the car but even I make mistakes .
be very carful of most of the big sellers on BaT and other platforms. There are some good ones but most who sell a lot aren't as honest as they are made out to be and are in it for the $$ and will say anything to get as much as they can.
GL
I have a pretty good eye about these cars since I have worked on countless and see them from every extreme and angle. I can usually pick up on photos what many miss seeing the car in person.
I will offer my help if needed. I have helped countless buy these over the years. There was only one car I was wrong about out of so many. I thought it had more damage than it actually did. I suggested to the buyer that he look into it closer and the seller got pissy with him. It ended up being damaged but not as bad as I thought. The buyer was happy passing on the car but even I make mistakes .
be very carful of most of the big sellers on BaT and other platforms. There are some good ones but most who sell a lot aren't as honest as they are made out to be and are in it for the $$ and will say anything to get as much as they can.
GL
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Bushbaby (12-15-2023)
12-14-2023, 02:53 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
wise words from an expert ^^^ .. and a friend. Take him up on the offer if there is any doubt on the 964 Turbo you are considering.
Btw, my car is no saint. I freely admit it has its faults ... mostly because it is all original paint (right down to even the smaller bits like bumper & mirrors),... and at over 80k smiling miles its seen some things (... the worst of which was that some cat must have slid down the passenger rear quarter panel back in the cars early life. 4 claw marks (not deep, but I immediately saw them upon inspecting the car for my purchase. Each about 4 inches long). Early on I spent quite a bit of time polish correcting those marks, and once Ceramic was applied back in 2018, they improved greatly & became much harder to see. Most people walk right by them now,... but in the right light they can be seen ... & of course in ANY light Mr Anthony Cobalt ^^^ has seen them. He has a keen eye, and a very deep knowledge. You are a valued expert in our community, and we appreciate all the years of helping every one of us. ME INCLUDED!! .....
anyway,... sure even with what we now consider to the best of these cars, still many have a few battle scars. I for one, would not trade those scars, as they tell the story of the car (& my 20 yrs of ownership).
As we all say, "Buy the seller, more so than the car itself". If the seller can answer any & all questions honestly, then you're buying an honest car (for what it is, at the price being asked). I call mine a "Driver' (even tho most consider it a Concours level car),... which allows me to continue putting miles on it, quilt free. The memories are worth it.
soap box off
Btw, my car is no saint. I freely admit it has its faults ... mostly because it is all original paint (right down to even the smaller bits like bumper & mirrors),... and at over 80k smiling miles its seen some things (... the worst of which was that some cat must have slid down the passenger rear quarter panel back in the cars early life. 4 claw marks (not deep, but I immediately saw them upon inspecting the car for my purchase. Each about 4 inches long). Early on I spent quite a bit of time polish correcting those marks, and once Ceramic was applied back in 2018, they improved greatly & became much harder to see. Most people walk right by them now,... but in the right light they can be seen ... & of course in ANY light Mr Anthony Cobalt ^^^ has seen them. He has a keen eye, and a very deep knowledge. You are a valued expert in our community, and we appreciate all the years of helping every one of us. ME INCLUDED!! .....
anyway,... sure even with what we now consider to the best of these cars, still many have a few battle scars. I for one, would not trade those scars, as they tell the story of the car (& my 20 yrs of ownership).
As we all say, "Buy the seller, more so than the car itself". If the seller can answer any & all questions honestly, then you're buying an honest car (for what it is, at the price being asked). I call mine a "Driver' (even tho most consider it a Concours level car),... which allows me to continue putting miles on it, quilt free. The memories are worth it.
soap box off
12-15-2023, 11:01 AM
#15
Rennlist Member
Steve,
When I was a DJ in a prior life we had a saying don't comment on dead air. Most people have no clue and although I am known to be particular, finding a #1 car these days is car that hasn't been enjoyed not to mention next to impossible and you have certainly enjoyed your car. It shows in the best way. Your car is gorgeous and you should be very proud of it. Irrespective of whatever personality it might have if you don't say anything nobody would see past the shine and the beauty of the car.
It is funny my friend Hank who took best in show in 22 at Kalahari was over my house and looked over the GT4. It is guards red as well with ceramic coat and it shines like no tomorrow. He could not find a single flaw in the paint and neither can I not one hairline scratch. Sadly the poor car will become a shared track car and despite the ppf will have flaws very quickly. It should be the car i win the Gmund with but as much as I enjoy the lunacy of Concours I just enjoy track driving too much and maybe one day we can get you out there as well.
@Bushbaby I responded to your PM.
When I was a DJ in a prior life we had a saying don't comment on dead air. Most people have no clue and although I am known to be particular, finding a #1 car these days is car that hasn't been enjoyed not to mention next to impossible and you have certainly enjoyed your car. It shows in the best way. Your car is gorgeous and you should be very proud of it. Irrespective of whatever personality it might have if you don't say anything nobody would see past the shine and the beauty of the car.
It is funny my friend Hank who took best in show in 22 at Kalahari was over my house and looked over the GT4. It is guards red as well with ceramic coat and it shines like no tomorrow. He could not find a single flaw in the paint and neither can I not one hairline scratch. Sadly the poor car will become a shared track car and despite the ppf will have flaws very quickly. It should be the car i win the Gmund with but as much as I enjoy the lunacy of Concours I just enjoy track driving too much and maybe one day we can get you out there as well.
@Bushbaby I responded to your PM.
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Bushbaby (12-15-2023)