wagonface

Good afternoon all, the exhaust system on my 3.3T has seen better days and has a few holes in it. I am looking at either a cargraphic or fabspeed system and wondered if anyone has experience of either? I dont want anything too loud as its a street car and I do one track day a year with a 98-100db limit. I do need heat (based in the UK).

My current setup is:
Headers: Billy Boat
Cat: original Porsche cat but I think its gutted/empty
Wastegate: Porsche original but its blowing and beyond repair
Wastegate cat: Porsche original, cant tell if its been gutted
Final muffler: Porsche suitcase
Tips: oval tips (OEM I think)

To get a sporty sound but not be obnoxious I think I need to keep a final silencer on there, and I guess I also need to keep the wastegate cat or it will be very noisy on boost on track - is that right?

The new setups I am considering are either:
Headers: Fabspeed
Cat: Fabspeed bypass pipe
Wastegate: Tial F46P 0.7bar
Wastegate cat: keep exsting one if possible, if not then use Fabspeed wastegate pipe
Final muffler: re-use current Porsche suitcase
Tips: re-use current tips

Or I could get the Cargraphic Sport Exhaust System with Short Primaries which is a complete setup, plus the Tial F46P. It does not have a cat or final suitcase silencer (it has a muffler where the cat normally sits). It also does not have a wastegate cat, just a straight pipe from wastegate to tip.

I have contacted Fabspeed to get their advice and they have sent me videos of similar setups so I can get an idea of sound. But I wondered if anyone has any experience of a Fabspeed or Cargraphic setup like I am considering. Thank you.

Metal Guru

The problem with all commercially available aftermarket Turbo exhaust setups is that they are all fabricated with 304 stainless, which is completely unsuited for any "hot end" (considered to be between the engine and cat) exhaust applications. This alloy is prone to stress corrosion cracking and therefore limited to use cold end (between the cat and the tailpipe) components.
OEMs, who are concerned about durability, safety and cost, use 409 ferritic stainless in hot end applications. For custom fabricating, 321 stainless is better (lighter). Inconel (a nickel superalloy) is the gold standard if you have deep pockets.
Unless you have a fabricator nearby, there are no good options other than buying a system which isn't better than your current BB headers and either throwing them away when they crack of having them constantly repaired.
You might inquire with Brian Boddart (RarlyL8 Motorsports). He uses 321 stainless and might be able to make you something. I use his muffler in place of a cat and suitcase but I also have many custom designed and fabricated parts in my exhaust.

pittcock

hi wagonface,

just for info.

https://www.haywardandscott.com/porsche/911/964.html

i have no expirience with these guys.

all the best

wagonface

Thank you. My Porsche Indy had a bad experience with a H&S system which didn't fit very well. I don't want to be in a position where my indy moans about the exhaust not fitting the whole time and charges me loads to work around it. But... I have also seen people talk about fabspeed fitment. One bad experience is not representative. It's tough with exhausts as most people only ever buy one so cant compare!

LOMartin

I have a FabSpeed exhaust on my 997.1 Turbo. I now advise against any fabspeed product. Horrible thin walled metal is used and leads to leaks.
even welding the holes was difficult as the metal was soo thin.

also in for more information on a 964T setup.

rstarga

I ran mine with stock headers, cat bypass pipe and no muffler. The turbo muffles the sound pretty well, left the waste gate cat. Sound was not excessive except the low rumble when driving through enclosed parking would set off all the car alarms.

das76

@wagonface any update to this thread? I’m in a bit of a similar position : I’m going to start an exhaust / muffler project soon.

what did you settle on ? Can you share some pictures please ?

wagonface

I have the fabspeed headers and their cat bypass pipe. Unfortunately neither my mechanic nor fabspeed could work out why the cat bypass pipe does not reach the final porsche suitcase muffler. It is fixed in place at the turbo end by an official porsche bracket, but at the suitcase end it was over an inch out in 2 directions. Fabspeed told me they made 25 in a batch and havent had any of the 23 sold returned, which hints that the bypass pipe isnt the problem. The weird thing is that my mechanic refitted the original porsche cat and it slotted into place. Fabspeed offered to send another bypass pipe if I want. That's the update on my situation - stuck with a bypass pipe in the shed that I want on the car. I could always fit the fabspeed cat bypass and use a G pipe that I also have in the shed, but I think that will be too loud for me.

I appreciate that doesn't help your decision! I looked at H&S in the UK but my mechanic wasn't overly impressed with them. I spoke to Rarly8 but the system needs careful work to fit a 964T as far as I could tell (it doesn't seem to be plug and play) and my mechanic doesn't like that kind of work. I also priced up Cargraphic and FVD and they were a fair bit more expensive.

das76

@wagonface great thanks. That is helpful.

i have BB right now and the drone between 2-3000rpm is a challenge

i contacted FVD and the muffler they list on the site (no pic) is the BB unit.

good to know about Rarly. I also want something plug and play.

inuadbt yet heard of Cargraphic so will check them out.

from the looks of it i think I can just swap my muffler and wastegate exhaust for the Fabspeed unit. I’ve seen pics on the Fabspeed site that looks like the headers/heater boxes are also BB (going to keep those for now)

im going to start a new thread with some pics of my current setup and see that else the pros say but this has been helpful!!!

My car is an ROW car from Japan and I don’t currently have the suitcase and looking at the way some of the other parts are run in that area I don’t know if it even did ?

Black_Hat

I have a RarlyL8 header , muffler and waste gate pipe on a 1991 C2 turbo It was 100% plug and play no modification.

In fact RarlyL8 is THE easiest to instal and uninstall due to their modular design...the other are one or two piece and you need to wrestle them to get them on and off , they bind and because of the pressure lead to exhaust leaks / pulled studs

I have installed a bunch of other mfg headers and Mufflers all mostly crap

B&B & Fab speed had fit issues and they Crack. The B&B muffler is super restrictive , Fab Speed has always even me attitude and I refuse to deal with them.
True short Tube unequal length headers may give more peak power

But

the longer tube equal length rarlyl8 headers sound better and are quieter due to the exhaust pulses hitting the turbo in even intervals removing more off the sound energy

you should compare this inside of the collector on the Rarlyl8 to the others ....No comparison

das76

@Black_Hat awesome. Thanks for the info! Very helpful

Megatron-UK

Fitted GSF headers about a decade ago on my UK 3.3. It wasn't a bolt-on job, as they are effectively modded 930 designs and required rerouting of oil lines, some brackets moving etc. That said, they have held up well, no cracks so far, and the power/response increase was noticeable. Compared to any other equivalent, they were also about half the price of B&B, Fabspeed et-al (even cheaper if I compare to current header costs). I also use a Fabspeed cat bypass (again, more than a decade old at this point), and it fit to my standard final silencer without issue - has something changed with the design more recently perhaps? I wouldn't use a G-pipe or swan-neck with this combination; it would be far too loud.

I'm in the middle of sourcing some Cargraphic parts (there isn't a UK distributor that seems to sell their 964 Turbo parts direct, so I'm having to use Jasmine Porschalink to order direct from the manufacturer). Also fitting Fabspeed oval tips to replace the factory originals which I have repainted several times over the years but are now well past their best.

wicks

All stock original except fabspeed cat bypass piece. Sounds great, but the fabspeed piece didn't fit quite right, had to do some mod on it, can't remember anymore tho. Might have to toss it if my current method of smogless CA reg renewals loophole gets closed.

Metal Guru

When I asked him about a 964T system he told me he wouldn't build me one. This was a few years ago.
Since I use a custom M&K set-up with 993 Bischoff heat exchangers and dual wastegates, I re-designed the merge pipe and had Roush fabricate it for me from 321 stainless. Ben from M&K designed it for a 930 so the crossover hung down too low and it would ground out on me. The goal of my re-design was to return the crossover part of the merge pipe to something resembling stock height, which I was able to do. I've had it on the car for 6 years now and I'm satisfied.

Scott Dunavant

I assume the difference for 965 is a wider heat flange? I ordered a set this June with heat delete for the 91 965.
I’m going to pursue other method of heat.
I think B&B’s last a long time? 10 or fifteen years? These headers get glowing red hot. Expansion and contraction is annoying. Not sure how that will be with RarlyL8
I don’t know much about Fabspeed. That was going to be my second Choice.
It doesn’t look like headers affect the value on BAT