How lower engine/gearbox for starter removal
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4th Gear
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How lower engine/gearbox for starter removal
I am in the midst of a starter replacement for my 94 Carrera 4. I can't seem to get at the back bolt and I noted in a search of the archives that it was suggested to lower the engine and/or rear of gearbox to get better access to the bolt.
Sounds like a good idea, but I have to admit I don't know how to do that and I'm also concerned that I don't lower the engine too far.
Thanks for any help and advice you can give.
Jim
Sounds like a good idea, but I have to admit I don't know how to do that and I'm also concerned that I don't lower the engine too far.
Thanks for any help and advice you can give.
Jim
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From: Parafield Gardens
Dear Jim,
This I DO NOT recommend unless you are properly equipped and have a couple of people present. I have not heard of the need to lower the engine to remove the starter. All I can say is take a closer look at what might be in the way.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4
This I DO NOT recommend unless you are properly equipped and have a couple of people present. I have not heard of the need to lower the engine to remove the starter. All I can say is take a closer look at what might be in the way.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4
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From: Dubai....where buildings appear overnight.
James,
I did this job myself and only removed the axle and diff lock actuator. The top bolt is a pain but you can get it with the right extension on your allen key socket. Try using a knuckle it may help also.
I did this job myself and only removed the axle and diff lock actuator. The top bolt is a pain but you can get it with the right extension on your allen key socket. Try using a knuckle it may help also.
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From: uk
James,
I did mine without dropping the engine/box - the top nut is a pain to get to, and you can only get on it by feel, but it's just about having the right tools - you definately need a universal joint - this makes it much easier.
Have a look here: http://www.964c4.ukf.net/starter.htm
There are some pictures that might help.
Cheers,
Pete. 90 C4 Coupe.
I did mine without dropping the engine/box - the top nut is a pain to get to, and you can only get on it by feel, but it's just about having the right tools - you definately need a universal joint - this makes it much easier.
Have a look here: http://www.964c4.ukf.net/starter.htm
There are some pictures that might help.
Cheers,
Pete. 90 C4 Coupe.
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4th Gear
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I think the only thing that I could still remove that might allow better access is the aluminum fitting at the top of the heater hose (hose itself is removed). In fact, I tried to remove this fitting by removing the one nut I could see but it would not come out. Having second thoughts as to whether it should come out, I have not investigated it further.
However, from everyone's comments, it doesn't seem like I need to remove the heater fitting or lower the engine. I thrown a few different combinations of ratchets, extensions, etc. at it already, but my toolbox isn't empty yet
so I'll keep going.
Thanks to all for the responses. I'm not new to working on/restoring my own cars, but I am new to working on my Porsche and this is a great site!
Jim
However, from everyone's comments, it doesn't seem like I need to remove the heater fitting or lower the engine. I thrown a few different combinations of ratchets, extensions, etc. at it already, but my toolbox isn't empty yet
so I'll keep going. Thanks to all for the responses. I'm not new to working on/restoring my own cars, but I am new to working on my Porsche and this is a great site!
Jim
Originally posted by Adrian
All I can say is take a closer look at what might be in the way.
All I can say is take a closer look at what might be in the way.
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From: Ocala, FL
Jim, I just did this in my 1991 C4... no need to drop the engine...
Here is my post:
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...threadid=95843
I used the instructions from here:
http://www.porsche964.co.uk/technical/starter.htm
If you still have it... remove the under tray... might want to keep it off... (start the debate again)
Need to undo the drive shaft from the transmission (but no need to completely remove it.
Remove the slave cylinder.
Remove only the heater hose.
Use a 10mm in-hex with a 3" extension to remove the upper starter bolt.
voila!
Here is my post:
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...threadid=95843
I used the instructions from here:
http://www.porsche964.co.uk/technical/starter.htm
If you still have it... remove the under tray... might want to keep it off... (start the debate again)
Need to undo the drive shaft from the transmission (but no need to completely remove it.
Remove the slave cylinder.
Remove only the heater hose.
Use a 10mm in-hex with a 3" extension to remove the upper starter bolt.
voila!
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From: uk
James,
Yes remove the aluminium fitting that the hose was connected to. There are 2 nuts holding it on. It allows a lot more access. I used a 10mm hex key with the right angle ground off. I slipped a 10mm ratchet spanner over and spent ages trying to get the hex key in the cap head. It is possible and the ratchet spanner requires less space/movement than a socket hex to break the bolt free.
And no with patience!! you do not need to drop the engine.
Good luck.
Richard 1990 C2
Yes remove the aluminium fitting that the hose was connected to. There are 2 nuts holding it on. It allows a lot more access. I used a 10mm hex key with the right angle ground off. I slipped a 10mm ratchet spanner over and spent ages trying to get the hex key in the cap head. It is possible and the ratchet spanner requires less space/movement than a socket hex to break the bolt free.
And no with patience!! you do not need to drop the engine.
Good luck.
Richard 1990 C2
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From: Virginia Beach, Va.
I lower the engine a bit when I do mine...makes the job MUCH easier. 
Put the car up on jack stands with the rear in the air...but not too high, just enough to provide a comfortable amount of space to work in.
Place floor jack pad under the motor, where the case seams together to support the engine then undo your motor mount nuts...you don't have to undo them all the way!!
Lower the engine the inch or two that this allows (***not removing the nuts all the way) and you will have better access to that allen nut...a 10mm allen socket is required.
You won't need a floor jack if you're careful about NOT removing the nuts all the way...you can actually lower the motor by just loosening the two nuts up on both sides, furthest rear. Just be careful, if you get one of them off - OOPS!!
I also do this when I bleed the clutch slave cylinder...again, while not required to perform the task, it does make it a bit easier.
Put the car up on jack stands with the rear in the air...but not too high, just enough to provide a comfortable amount of space to work in.
Place floor jack pad under the motor, where the case seams together to support the engine then undo your motor mount nuts...you don't have to undo them all the way!!
Lower the engine the inch or two that this allows (***not removing the nuts all the way) and you will have better access to that allen nut...a 10mm allen socket is required.
You won't need a floor jack if you're careful about NOT removing the nuts all the way...you can actually lower the motor by just loosening the two nuts up on both sides, furthest rear. Just be careful, if you get one of them off - OOPS!!
I also do this when I bleed the clutch slave cylinder...again, while not required to perform the task, it does make it a bit easier.
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Thread Starter
4th Gear
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Jeff,
I plan to continue my efforts to remove the starter without lowering the engine, but just in case, or for future reference, can you tell me where the motor mount nuts are? This would not be something on which I want to make a mistake.
Thanks, Jim
I plan to continue my efforts to remove the starter without lowering the engine, but just in case, or for future reference, can you tell me where the motor mount nuts are? This would not be something on which I want to make a mistake.
Thanks, Jim
Originally posted by Jeff Curtis
Place floor jack pad under the motor, where the case seams together to support the engine then undo your motor mount nuts...you don't have to undo them all the way!!
Place floor jack pad under the motor, where the case seams together to support the engine then undo your motor mount nuts...you don't have to undo them all the way!!
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Now that I am back on the road, I wanted to post back with an update.
Basically, it turned out that I needed to apply a bit more torque. Being a bit of a tool junkie, I have quite a collection of ratchets, bits, universal joints, etc. Nonetheless, I could not get an angle where I felt I could apply sufficient torque without being concerned about stripping the hex nut. I had not yet attempted to lower the engine and was worried about doing so. I was ready to throw in the towel and flat-bed it to my mechanic - if he stripped the nut, it would be his problem.
I was giving it another try with a stubby hex socket, universal joint, extension and 3/8 flex head ratchet when I heard a CRACK!!. It sounded like a gun went off; I thought for sure I broke my ratchet. But I pulled the ratchet off and everything seemed OK. I tried again. CRACK!! Same routine - pull ratchet off, seemed fine. I tried again and the NUT MOVED! Less than 5 minutes later the starter was on the ground. I don't think I ever loosened a nut that tight that didn't end up stripping the nut or shearing the bolt.
Anyhoo, there were other adventures to come - like the rebuilt starter with the wrong solenoid and the second rebuilt starter with the slightly mushroomed shaft. But I eventually got it back together and its on the road again. And I just located a genuine 964 Turbo spoiler and decklid, but thats another story....
So thanks to all for the help and advice, it was very much appreciated.
Jim
Basically, it turned out that I needed to apply a bit more torque. Being a bit of a tool junkie, I have quite a collection of ratchets, bits, universal joints, etc. Nonetheless, I could not get an angle where I felt I could apply sufficient torque without being concerned about stripping the hex nut. I had not yet attempted to lower the engine and was worried about doing so. I was ready to throw in the towel and flat-bed it to my mechanic - if he stripped the nut, it would be his problem.
I was giving it another try with a stubby hex socket, universal joint, extension and 3/8 flex head ratchet when I heard a CRACK!!. It sounded like a gun went off; I thought for sure I broke my ratchet. But I pulled the ratchet off and everything seemed OK. I tried again. CRACK!! Same routine - pull ratchet off, seemed fine. I tried again and the NUT MOVED! Less than 5 minutes later the starter was on the ground. I don't think I ever loosened a nut that tight that didn't end up stripping the nut or shearing the bolt.
Anyhoo, there were other adventures to come - like the rebuilt starter with the wrong solenoid and the second rebuilt starter with the slightly mushroomed shaft. But I eventually got it back together and its on the road again. And I just located a genuine 964 Turbo spoiler and decklid, but thats another story....
So thanks to all for the help and advice, it was very much appreciated.
Jim
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From: West Sussex, UK
You're right this is a pig of a job, as I found when I did it.
I've since come across a replacement starter motor from Cambridge Motorsport, which is much smaller. This makes it a doddle to fit and remove, and it's cheaper than a recon Porsche item. Also it's geared to give more torque.
The one I saw was supplied by Autofarm (www.autofarm.co.uk).
Cheers
I've since come across a replacement starter motor from Cambridge Motorsport, which is much smaller. This makes it a doddle to fit and remove, and it's cheaper than a recon Porsche item. Also it's geared to give more torque.
The one I saw was supplied by Autofarm (www.autofarm.co.uk).
Cheers
