New 964 Owner—Fixed Bucket Seats, Steering Wheels, Airbags, Rollbar/rollcage ?'s
12-01-2016, 11:05 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
I suppose it depends how (in)frequently you'd be doing this. You need to remove the seats to put the rollbar in or take it out, and I wouldn't want to do it without a second set of hands.
Note that you also need the hub adapter for the 964 with whichever steering wheel you order.
Note that you also need the hub adapter for the 964 with whichever steering wheel you order.
12-01-2016, 11:23 AM
#17
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Welcome! Slate Grey Metallic is the fastest colour.
I want to retain the back seats for transporting smaller humans
Is it possible to retain practical access to the back seat with fixed buckets in the front?
If not, is switching between stock [Sport!] seats for the street, and buckets for the track something that is easy to do?
Can I have a rollbar/rollcage/harness bar and maintain practical usability of the rear seats?
If not, is it possible to have a "bolt-in" rollbar/cage/harness bar situation, so that I could convert back to "street"/passenger-hauling mode after a track day?
I assume installing the DAS rollbar requires removal of whatever front seats are there?
If the DAS rollbar is bolt-in, how would removal be difficult enough to not warrant insertion/removal around track events?
1) No way, no how you should ever install fixed-back buckets with the intention of having passengers in the rear seats. By severely restricting egress, you are effectively handing them a death sentence in the event of a crash. Apologies for sounding a bit dramatic, but I feel the danger cannot be overstated.
2) Rear seats cannot be used with a roll bar.
3) While the DAS rollbar is bolt in (I had one), it is a royal PITA to install. Fitment is hit or miss, with some having resorted to using ratchet straps to compress the sides so that it would fit into the tub. Also, it is relatively heavy and unwieldy and is better managed with a second set of hands.
I also have Recaro PP in mine, and while I like them a lot, Porsche sport seats are some of the best seats ever produced by the factory. Great bolstering, super comfortable on long drives.
For a DD that sees some track time (what are we talking here - DE, AutoX?), you should consider something like the Recaro Sportster CS - the aesthetics of a fixed back racing-style seat, with excellent bolstering and support, but has the ability to recline and fold foward like a standard seat. A nice feature is a release lever integrated into the belt guide for rear-seat passengers.
Good luck with your build!
I want to retain the back seats for transporting smaller humans
Is it possible to retain practical access to the back seat with fixed buckets in the front?
If not, is switching between stock [Sport!] seats for the street, and buckets for the track something that is easy to do?
Can I have a rollbar/rollcage/harness bar and maintain practical usability of the rear seats?
If not, is it possible to have a "bolt-in" rollbar/cage/harness bar situation, so that I could convert back to "street"/passenger-hauling mode after a track day?
I assume installing the DAS rollbar requires removal of whatever front seats are there?
If the DAS rollbar is bolt-in, how would removal be difficult enough to not warrant insertion/removal around track events?
2) Rear seats cannot be used with a roll bar.
3) While the DAS rollbar is bolt in (I had one), it is a royal PITA to install. Fitment is hit or miss, with some having resorted to using ratchet straps to compress the sides so that it would fit into the tub. Also, it is relatively heavy and unwieldy and is better managed with a second set of hands.
I also have Recaro PP in mine, and while I like them a lot, Porsche sport seats are some of the best seats ever produced by the factory. Great bolstering, super comfortable on long drives.
For a DD that sees some track time (what are we talking here - DE, AutoX?), you should consider something like the Recaro Sportster CS - the aesthetics of a fixed back racing-style seat, with excellent bolstering and support, but has the ability to recline and fold foward like a standard seat. A nice feature is a release lever integrated into the belt guide for rear-seat passengers.
Good luck with your build!
12-01-2016, 12:32 PM
#18
Instructor
Thread Starter
I suppose it depends how (in)frequently you'd be doing this. You need to remove the seats to put the rollbar in or take it out, and I wouldn't want to do it without a second set of hands.
Note that you also need the hub adapter for the 964 with whichever steering wheel you order.
Note that you also need the hub adapter for the 964 with whichever steering wheel you order.
Welcome! Slate Grey Metallic is the fastest colour.
1) No way, no how you should ever install fixed-back buckets with the intention of having passengers in the rear seats. By severely restricting egress, you are effectively handing them a death sentence in the event of a crash. Apologies for sounding a bit dramatic, but I feel the danger cannot be overstated.
2) Rear seats cannot be used with a roll bar.
3) While the DAS rollbar is bolt in (I had one), it is a royal PITA to install. Fitment is hit or miss, with some having resorted to using ratchet straps to compress the sides so that it would fit into the tub. Also, it is relatively heavy and unwieldy and is better managed with a second set of hands.
I also have Recaro PP in mine, and while I like them a lot, Porsche sport seats are some of the best seats ever produced by the factory. Great bolstering, super comfortable on long drives.
For a DD that sees some track time (what are we talking here - DE, AutoX?), you should consider something like the Recaro Sportster CS - the aesthetics of a fixed back racing-style seat, with excellent bolstering and support, but has the ability to recline and fold foward like a standard seat. A nice feature is a release lever integrated into the belt guide for rear-seat passengers.
Good luck with your build!
1) No way, no how you should ever install fixed-back buckets with the intention of having passengers in the rear seats. By severely restricting egress, you are effectively handing them a death sentence in the event of a crash. Apologies for sounding a bit dramatic, but I feel the danger cannot be overstated.
2) Rear seats cannot be used with a roll bar.
3) While the DAS rollbar is bolt in (I had one), it is a royal PITA to install. Fitment is hit or miss, with some having resorted to using ratchet straps to compress the sides so that it would fit into the tub. Also, it is relatively heavy and unwieldy and is better managed with a second set of hands.
I also have Recaro PP in mine, and while I like them a lot, Porsche sport seats are some of the best seats ever produced by the factory. Great bolstering, super comfortable on long drives.
For a DD that sees some track time (what are we talking here - DE, AutoX?), you should consider something like the Recaro Sportster CS - the aesthetics of a fixed back racing-style seat, with excellent bolstering and support, but has the ability to recline and fold foward like a standard seat. A nice feature is a release lever integrated into the belt guide for rear-seat passengers.
Good luck with your build!
And I don't think you're being dramatic—these are the types of answers I was looking for.
***
Sounds like it's an all or nothing type thing when it comes to doing the "race" interior.
12-01-2016, 12:42 PM
#19
Three Wheelin'
Did you purchase the Slate Grey car that was shown at Werks Reunion? I'm looking at a Slate Grey car this weekend and hopefully will have it back in SF early next week. Post some pictures of your car before you start tearing into it : )
12-01-2016, 01:19 PM
#20
Instructor
Thread Starter
This year was my first Luftgekühlt, and my first Werks Reunion. (In fact, it was seeing all the "normals" at Luft that inspired me to hunt for a 964 of my own!)
I should write a blog post about all this eventually.
And yes, I'll be sure to post some pics of the car before doing anything.
At this point, I'm pretty much split 50/50 as far as just redoing the nasty white interior in all black (but still "OEM" with non-RS cards, etc.—using stuff from Lakewell), and doing the RS thing with a rollbar, back seats out, fixed buckets, racing steering wheel, etc.
Seems like there's no ideal in-between haha
12-01-2016, 01:54 PM
#21
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Pretty much. There's street, there's track, and everything else is mostly a compromise. You just need to figure out how much you're willing to compromise, and in what areas. Usually that's done through trial and error! $$$
12-01-2016, 02:21 PM
#22
Instructor
Thread Starter
Well, certainly not as compared with the factory seats, or the Sportsters; there's a reason why they are classified as race seats. PPs are designed to restrict movement. I like them just fine in my weekend driver, not sure I'd want to deal with them on a daily basis in a DD.
Pretty much. There's street, there's track, and everything else is mostly a compromise. You just need to figure out how much you're willing to compromise, and in what areas. Usually that's done through trial and error! $$$
Pretty much. There's street, there's track, and everything else is mostly a compromise. You just need to figure out how much you're willing to compromise, and in what areas. Usually that's done through trial and error! $$$
12-06-2016, 07:33 PM
#23
KOTYKB,
By the looks of your sig, shall we say like you 'pulled the trigger' on the Slate Grey
??!!Did I miss the intro to it or is it in the making? It's gotta be a nice one
Please give the deets when possible.
12-06-2016, 07:43 PM
#24
Three Wheelin'
I bought the car over the weekend and its currently in Orange County until I get back down for Christmas. I'll spend some time getting it cleaned up, get some pictures, and make my intro
12-06-2016, 08:24 PM
#25
!Sorry for the temporary HI-jack of this thread, back to regular scheduled programming...
12-06-2016, 08:27 PM
#26
Three Wheelin'
No, I don't think so. I got it from a sorta-shady dealer in Florida haha. Previously a New Jersey car.
This year was my first Luftgekühlt, and my first Werks Reunion. (In fact, it was seeing all the "normals" at Luft that inspired me to hunt for a 964 of my own!)
I should write a blog post about all this eventually.
And yes, I'll be sure to post some pics of the car before doing anything.
At this point, I'm pretty much split 50/50 as far as just redoing the nasty white interior in all black (but still "OEM" with non-RS cards, etc.—using stuff from Lakewell), and doing the RS thing with a rollbar, back seats out, fixed buckets, racing steering wheel, etc.
Seems like there's no ideal in-between haha
This year was my first Luftgekühlt, and my first Werks Reunion. (In fact, it was seeing all the "normals" at Luft that inspired me to hunt for a 964 of my own!)
I should write a blog post about all this eventually.
And yes, I'll be sure to post some pics of the car before doing anything.
At this point, I'm pretty much split 50/50 as far as just redoing the nasty white interior in all black (but still "OEM" with non-RS cards, etc.—using stuff from Lakewell), and doing the RS thing with a rollbar, back seats out, fixed buckets, racing steering wheel, etc.
Seems like there's no ideal in-between haha
My car has the grey dash/headliner with Linen seats and carpet. I don't mind the light look, which compliments the exterior very well. Changing the interior to all black will probably run what $6-8k for the dash/headliner/door panels/seats etc. If you decide to go this route check this company out http://www.classic9leathershop.com
I'm going to focus more on getting the car cleaned up and fixing some of the issues and items that are worn. Then moving onto doing a full paint correction to get the car looking like it should. Hopefully next year I'll do a suspension overhaul with KW V3's, bushings, RS Sway Bars, wheel spacers, new brakes (OEM but I would love big reds) etc.
Where do you live in NorCal?
12-07-2016, 11:17 AM
#27
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Toni - Listen to KenD - With PP seats there is no way that you will have free access to the rear let alone be able to use the rear seats. You could stuff something in there but its not going to come out in a hurry. I have this set up in my car and find it hard to even get my helemt bag in the rear of the car. On PP install just get the seat runners you do not need a seat platform to mount. Removing and installing PP seats with this seat up is not to bad but still takes time. The best option here would be to have a PP for the driver then an option passenger set that can be folded forward to allow access to the rear. This you CAN NOT do if you are going through first stages of DE's as both seats and seat belts have to be the same for driver and passenger/instructor.
Roll bar is your best and easiest option - however a Das is not going to be the answer. Nor is putting in and taking out an easy task. YOu will butcher your interior. The best solution is going to be to go with a custom bar that is fit tightly against the sides and follows the "B" pillars and roof line as close as possible. This will give you minimum side interference and maximum usable space. Then the 2 back braces needs to run to the rear shelf and use the baby seat anchors as an attachment point if you want to have it/these removable. These need to be as wide as possible. Additional bolt in points will have to be welded in . The cross brace needs to be designed to be removable, opening up the center are for use. This system will allow full access to the rear. If the cross brace is designed correctly and anchored/placed in the rear seat area outside corner it will allow use and access to the rear seats when the cross bar is removed. This is not an easy build but is the only way that I know that you can have access/ functional rear seats with a roll bar.
Roll bar is your best and easiest option - however a Das is not going to be the answer. Nor is putting in and taking out an easy task. YOu will butcher your interior. The best solution is going to be to go with a custom bar that is fit tightly against the sides and follows the "B" pillars and roof line as close as possible. This will give you minimum side interference and maximum usable space. Then the 2 back braces needs to run to the rear shelf and use the baby seat anchors as an attachment point if you want to have it/these removable. These need to be as wide as possible. Additional bolt in points will have to be welded in . The cross brace needs to be designed to be removable, opening up the center are for use. This system will allow full access to the rear. If the cross brace is designed correctly and anchored/placed in the rear seat area outside corner it will allow use and access to the rear seats when the cross bar is removed. This is not an easy build but is the only way that I know that you can have access/ functional rear seats with a roll bar.
12-07-2016, 12:38 PM
#28
Instructor
Thread Starter
My car has the grey dash/headliner with Linen seats and carpet. I don't mind the light look, which compliments the exterior very well. Changing the interior to all black will probably run what $6-8k for the dash/headliner/door panels/seats etc. If you decide to go this route check this company out http://www.classic9leathershop.com
I'm going to focus more on getting the car cleaned up and fixing some of the issues and items that are worn. Then moving onto doing a full paint correction to get the car looking like it should. Hopefully next year I'll do a suspension overhaul with KW V3's, bushings, RS Sway Bars, wheel spacers, new brakes (OEM but I would love big reds) etc.
Where do you live in NorCal?
I'm going to focus more on getting the car cleaned up and fixing some of the issues and items that are worn. Then moving onto doing a full paint correction to get the car looking like it should. Hopefully next year I'll do a suspension overhaul with KW V3's, bushings, RS Sway Bars, wheel spacers, new brakes (OEM but I would love big reds) etc.
Where do you live in NorCal?
My first mechanical issues are the shift linkage (it's pretty sloppy) and wheels/tires/suspension bits. Need to get off my lazy butt and hunt down some Cup 1's.
Seems like kW is the way to go as far as coilovers go. I'm a newbie, so maybe a 1-way or something would be ideal for me (easy for me to adjust without complicating things). Just need to find a decent shop up here in NorCal to do all that corner balancing stuff, and mount tires to wheels, etc.
I'm in Vacaville, which is basically halfway between SF and Sac on I-80. You?
Toni - Listen to KenD - With PP seats there is no way that you will have free access to the rear let alone be able to use the rear seats. You could stuff something in there but its not going to come out in a hurry. I have this set up in my car and find it hard to even get my helemt bag in the rear of the car. On PP install just get the seat runners you do not need a seat platform to mount. Removing and installing PP seats with this seat up is not to bad but still takes time. The best option here would be to have a PP for the driver then an option passenger set that can be folded forward to allow access to the rear. This you CAN NOT do if you are going through first stages of DE's as both seats and seat belts have to be the same for driver and passenger/instructor.
Roll bar is your best and easiest option - however a Das is not going to be the answer. Nor is putting in and taking out an easy task. YOu will butcher your interior. The best solution is going to be to go with a custom bar that is fit tightly against the sides and follows the "B" pillars and roof line as close as possible. This will give you minimum side interference and maximum usable space. Then the 2 back braces needs to run to the rear shelf and use the baby seat anchors as an attachment point if you want to have it/these removable. These need to be as wide as possible. Additional bolt in points will have to be welded in . The cross brace needs to be designed to be removable, opening up the center are for use. This system will allow full access to the rear. If the cross brace is designed correctly and anchored/placed in the rear seat area outside corner it will allow use and access to the rear seats when the cross bar is removed. This is not an easy build but is the only way that I know that you can have access/ functional rear seats with a roll bar.
Roll bar is your best and easiest option - however a Das is not going to be the answer. Nor is putting in and taking out an easy task. YOu will butcher your interior. The best solution is going to be to go with a custom bar that is fit tightly against the sides and follows the "B" pillars and roof line as close as possible. This will give you minimum side interference and maximum usable space. Then the 2 back braces needs to run to the rear shelf and use the baby seat anchors as an attachment point if you want to have it/these removable. These need to be as wide as possible. Additional bolt in points will have to be welded in . The cross brace needs to be designed to be removable, opening up the center are for use. This system will allow full access to the rear. If the cross brace is designed correctly and anchored/placed in the rear seat area outside corner it will allow use and access to the rear seats when the cross bar is removed. This is not an easy build but is the only way that I know that you can have access/ functional rear seats with a roll bar.
12-07-2016, 05:57 PM
#29
Three Wheelin'
I'm going to do a suspension overhaul also with KW V3's, bushings, RS Sway Bars, wheel bearings, and a brake rebuild. Elephant Racing is local in the SF Bay and a great source to get a lot of the bushing and suspension parts from. I'll keep you in the loop as I buy the parts for the install. Luckily I have Cup 1's on my car, I might move to BBS E88's down the road but that's not a cheap upgrade.
Hopefully there will be some Porsche gatherings early next year so we can meet up. I live in SOMA San Francisco.
http://www.elephantracing.com
Hopefully there will be some Porsche gatherings early next year so we can meet up. I live in SOMA San Francisco.
http://www.elephantracing.com
12-07-2016, 09:13 PM
#30
Racer
Congrats on the new purchase.
Sounds like you have good plans to enjoy your new purchase.
A small piece of advice is start slow and don't go crazy modding the car. Just get it running top shape and enjoy it for a little while. Having said that, here is my opinion on what you are asking:
Steering wheel - do as you wish, if you can afford the air bag to go allong with a new wheel more power to ya.
Fixed buckets - whichever you chose, most are reasonably comfortable but getting into the back is a PITA regardless of size.
Roll bar - really has no place in a street car (this is just my opinion, I don't mean to offend) If you want something removable then it's more aesthetic than functional which defeats the purpose of what a roll bar is intended for. Unless, you run full harnesses then it's even a bigger safety issue IMO.
Roll cage - same as above but that is usually more serious and welded in not bolted although I've seen bolt in ones but if you are getting into all of that you might as well weld it.
Sounds like you have good plans to enjoy your new purchase.
A small piece of advice is start slow and don't go crazy modding the car. Just get it running top shape and enjoy it for a little while. Having said that, here is my opinion on what you are asking:
Steering wheel - do as you wish, if you can afford the air bag to go allong with a new wheel more power to ya.
Fixed buckets - whichever you chose, most are reasonably comfortable but getting into the back is a PITA regardless of size.
Roll bar - really has no place in a street car (this is just my opinion, I don't mean to offend) If you want something removable then it's more aesthetic than functional which defeats the purpose of what a roll bar is intended for. Unless, you run full harnesses then it's even a bigger safety issue IMO.
Roll cage - same as above but that is usually more serious and welded in not bolted although I've seen bolt in ones but if you are getting into all of that you might as well weld it.