comments on this deal?
10-22-2003, 11:47 AM
#18
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I agree $30,000 is steep for a car that clearly shows signs of abuse. Keeping the interior nice is easy. Its ratty condition shows the attitude of the owner is not good, and similar neglect is likely in other areas.
Also consider that if this is your daily driver, you will experience the bad interior every day. The cost for a new interior rivals the cost for an engine overhaul. When I shopped, every car I visited was immaculate, and not a single car had interior flaws. Most were priced below $30K.
I doubt the modified engine will be as reliable or easy to maintain as stock. Unless you really need the modified engine, I would shop for a standard car that has been pampered. The performance of a stock 3.6 is already very good.
The market is depressed. The 964s are getting old. Many still have low miles, which makes them a bargain in the used car market. With a $30,000 budget, you can get a very attractive 964 with no needs.
Also consider that if this is your daily driver, you will experience the bad interior every day. The cost for a new interior rivals the cost for an engine overhaul. When I shopped, every car I visited was immaculate, and not a single car had interior flaws. Most were priced below $30K.
I doubt the modified engine will be as reliable or easy to maintain as stock. Unless you really need the modified engine, I would shop for a standard car that has been pampered. The performance of a stock 3.6 is already very good.
The market is depressed. The 964s are getting old. Many still have low miles, which makes them a bargain in the used car market. With a $30,000 budget, you can get a very attractive 964 with no needs.
10-23-2003, 05:56 PM
#19
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Joe - I have a 1991 C4 Black/Cashmere w 92000 miles in very good shape that I am putting on the market tomorrow. I use it as a daily driver, is clean and sound, new tires, has a great sound system. Bought the car 3 years ago w 62,000 miles and have had NO problems since. The clutch has not been replaced on my watch and is still in good condition. I am looking for less than what you were willing to pay for that other POJ, as I need to sell as soon as possible. Email me at sca2@comcast.net if you are interested and we can discuss.
Steve
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10-23-2003, 06:33 PM
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It sounds lik eit was a track car to me - though a targa with a/c is an odd choice of track weapon!! But, 3.8 l conversion, brake upgrades and a really ****ty interior all add up to track car.
Unless you want it for the track, i'd pass. You 'think' you are getting all these mods for $4k, but you don't really know what state all the mods are really in.
Good luck - I hope it all goes well whatever you decide.
Unless you want it for the track, i'd pass. You 'think' you are getting all these mods for $4k, but you don't really know what state all the mods are really in.
Good luck - I hope it all goes well whatever you decide.
10-23-2003, 08:41 PM
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Thanks for the offer, Steve, but I'm still following up on the POJ and have at least decided that I prefer the C2 for my usage. Will you have a Porsche next year? If you do any club events, by then I"ll be there (hopefully).
Thanks for the well-wishes, John. And I will come back when I've covered the rest of the bases so all of you who've been so forthcoming can know the final scoop on the car. You're right that it's been tracked, but so long as it's been maintained well I'm not overly worried on that score.
Yesterday I got a PPI that had been ordered by the locator a couple of weeks ago along with copies of the car's paper since '96. Today I met with the mechanic who did the PPI and who is also the builder of the engine. He claims that particular buildup (Andials, Carillo, cams) nets close to 300hp and increases ft/lb by an average of 12%. We looked over the original dynos he ran on one with the same configuration. Next week he's going to look the car over again for me to specifically look at the work he is not responsible for and to answer a number of questions I have (and which have been raised here). The leakdown, btw, ranged from 2-5%.
Even if the car turns out well, it presents a problem (mentioned above) for me. I've been an autocrosser for awhile and, while this car would be a hoot to run, it would effectively knock me out of competition by moving me into a mod class. So I'd be running just for fun ... is that ok? I'll have to think about that.
Interesting shop the mechanic has: he and another mechanic were busy prepping 4 cars for clients going to Watkins Glen this weekend. Two GT3s, another I didn't recognize (with serious aerodynamics), and a 993TT they built to 650hp. Wonderful cars. I dream of someday being a good enough driver to trust myself with something like that!
Enjoy. J
Thanks for the well-wishes, John. And I will come back when I've covered the rest of the bases so all of you who've been so forthcoming can know the final scoop on the car. You're right that it's been tracked, but so long as it's been maintained well I'm not overly worried on that score.
Yesterday I got a PPI that had been ordered by the locator a couple of weeks ago along with copies of the car's paper since '96. Today I met with the mechanic who did the PPI and who is also the builder of the engine. He claims that particular buildup (Andials, Carillo, cams) nets close to 300hp and increases ft/lb by an average of 12%. We looked over the original dynos he ran on one with the same configuration. Next week he's going to look the car over again for me to specifically look at the work he is not responsible for and to answer a number of questions I have (and which have been raised here). The leakdown, btw, ranged from 2-5%.
Even if the car turns out well, it presents a problem (mentioned above) for me. I've been an autocrosser for awhile and, while this car would be a hoot to run, it would effectively knock me out of competition by moving me into a mod class. So I'd be running just for fun ... is that ok? I'll have to think about that.
Interesting shop the mechanic has: he and another mechanic were busy prepping 4 cars for clients going to Watkins Glen this weekend. Two GT3s, another I didn't recognize (with serious aerodynamics), and a 993TT they built to 650hp. Wonderful cars. I dream of someday being a good enough driver to trust myself with something like that!
Enjoy. J
10-23-2003, 09:06 PM
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Originally posted by JoeW
....and I guess I'm one of the few folks on earth who actually prefers the 964, at least at this point in my learning. J
....and I guess I'm one of the few folks on earth who actually prefers the 964, at least at this point in my learning. J
10-26-2003, 01:30 PM
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Hey Joe,
seems like the car is interesting (since you will use it for some racing)... the real question is if you can get the seller to take care of all those issues for that price. All those mods, if done right, do add some value to the car (especially to somebody thats looking for them). What was he originally asking?? You have him at $30K if he handles all that stuff, but in situations like these it can be easy to get an even better deal. A lot of sellers simply don't want to deal with handling repairs like this, and they'd rather take a loss in money just to get the deal done. Plus, normally when people are selling something of this value they may be anxious to get whatever car they plan to use that money for, or maybe, if you're lucky they just want the money out of the car sooner then later. What I'm saying is that you may be better off offering a lot less, but saying you'll take care of the repairs on your end. Generally, if you're comfortable doing this, it's an opportunity to save even more money. It may be worth having the car looked at by an independent shop and paying them a few hours of labor to really get in there and get you a real estimate, maybe that would change your mind one way or the other.
One last note, if you're into those mods, it may not be so easy to find another car with those mods done to it - so if you really like all that, the other option would be to get more of a stock car and put all those mods on the stock car (but that all together will cost a lot more then $30K).
Ken.
seems like the car is interesting (since you will use it for some racing)... the real question is if you can get the seller to take care of all those issues for that price. All those mods, if done right, do add some value to the car (especially to somebody thats looking for them). What was he originally asking?? You have him at $30K if he handles all that stuff, but in situations like these it can be easy to get an even better deal. A lot of sellers simply don't want to deal with handling repairs like this, and they'd rather take a loss in money just to get the deal done. Plus, normally when people are selling something of this value they may be anxious to get whatever car they plan to use that money for, or maybe, if you're lucky they just want the money out of the car sooner then later. What I'm saying is that you may be better off offering a lot less, but saying you'll take care of the repairs on your end. Generally, if you're comfortable doing this, it's an opportunity to save even more money. It may be worth having the car looked at by an independent shop and paying them a few hours of labor to really get in there and get you a real estimate, maybe that would change your mind one way or the other.
One last note, if you're into those mods, it may not be so easy to find another car with those mods done to it - so if you really like all that, the other option would be to get more of a stock car and put all those mods on the stock car (but that all together will cost a lot more then $30K).
Ken.
10-26-2003, 08:57 PM
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Ken, thanks. It sounds like you're reading my mind. Your suggestion is the direction I'm thinking of going. (It's nice to know that I'm not alone on this!)
I first want to confirm with the locator that the buyer is willing to be very flexible
on his price. If so, then it goes back to the mechanic (who I have confidence in) for some quality time so I can get a pretty good (financial) handle on the car ... or maybe find out that it needs basic, substantive work and isn't worth the aggravation. I'm not willing to put more than $30000 into it.
And you're certainly right about the cost of the modifications -- I have receipts for over $20000. When I tripped over the car I was looking for a stock C2, and will go back to my search if this one doesn't pan out.
Hopefully, I'll be able to get all parties together this week to sort some of this out.
Thanks again for the support!
J
I first want to confirm with the locator that the buyer is willing to be very flexible
on his price. If so, then it goes back to the mechanic (who I have confidence in) for some quality time so I can get a pretty good (financial) handle on the car ... or maybe find out that it needs basic, substantive work and isn't worth the aggravation. I'm not willing to put more than $30000 into it.And you're certainly right about the cost of the modifications -- I have receipts for over $20000. When I tripped over the car I was looking for a stock C2, and will go back to my search if this one doesn't pan out.
Hopefully, I'll be able to get all parties together this week to sort some of this out.
Thanks again for the support!
J
10-30-2003, 09:17 PM
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UPDATE!
Thanks to all of you who offered encouragement and words of caution. This is to confirm that you all, of course 
, were right.
I turned the car down finally, last night. I rejected it for two reasons which, really, summarize what all of you had said:
.... to get it to the condition I would insist upon for $30000 (i.e., clean cosmetics, all repairs, complete maintenance) will cost nearly $9000. I can't blame the seller for not being interested in making this sort of concession.
.... even then, the 3.8 engine alone would force me to move out of stock autoX events, right over SP and P, to modified! I would be running this little C2 against purpose built, open wheel, trailered vehicles which consistently record TOD. Now, I don't insist on winning, this would be such a disadvantage that the fun would go out of it. And yes, I could start on DE events, and plan to, but who knows how that will go?
So, back to the search! Thanks, again
, were right. I turned the car down finally, last night. I rejected it for two reasons which, really, summarize what all of you had said:
.... to get it to the condition I would insist upon for $30000 (i.e., clean cosmetics, all repairs, complete maintenance) will cost nearly $9000. I can't blame the seller for not being interested in making this sort of concession.
.... even then, the 3.8 engine alone would force me to move out of stock autoX events, right over SP and P, to modified! I would be running this little C2 against purpose built, open wheel, trailered vehicles which consistently record TOD. Now, I don't insist on winning, this would be such a disadvantage that the fun would go out of it. And yes, I could start on DE events, and plan to, but who knows how that will go?
So, back to the search! Thanks, again
10-31-2003, 02:04 PM
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Joe,
those are great reasons to stay away from that car, especially with the race classification. The most important thing (which I know you are already aware of) is to find a car you're in love with and has the foundation of everything you're looking for. I would imagine that it won't be easy to find a car with the specific mods you're looking for, so you're plan makes the most sense, find a good stock car and start doing you're own tweaking to it. The best part, there are plenty of well maintained and high quality C2s out there so a bargain shouldnt be hard to find! Good luck!
Ken.
those are great reasons to stay away from that car, especially with the race classification. The most important thing (which I know you are already aware of) is to find a car you're in love with and has the foundation of everything you're looking for. I would imagine that it won't be easy to find a car with the specific mods you're looking for, so you're plan makes the most sense, find a good stock car and start doing you're own tweaking to it. The best part, there are plenty of well maintained and high quality C2s out there so a bargain shouldnt be hard to find! Good luck!
Ken.
