RSAErick

Steve,
Thanks for your contributions. I believe that the last time that I discussed PSS-9's for the 964 with you (1+ year ago), you told me that there was some "adaptations" that needed to be made to make them work. Is this no longer the case?

Erick

Cupcar

Thinking about it, here is how I would do it the second time.

I would still buy the H&R kit since I like the shocks with the alloy rear and the huge strut rod front. The springs are readily changeable and available racing springs, so you can experiment to some degree with the rate if you choose. I like the rates out of the box though. I think they are higher than PSS9 at 457/685 front and rear respectively.

The only thing I would do differently is use the $595 Racers Group's copy of the original RSR mount as the front upper mount.



I would then use the RSR locking plates to lock out the factory street camber adjustment point behind the wheel and only adjust the camber at the top of the strut using the Racers Group mount. This creates a stronger system unlikely to have the camber shift in service. I have been told over 2 degrees of negative camber is achieveable with the RG mount, unlike the H&R.

For the rear upper mount I would hope that the fitment problems are unique to my Cup since it may have been due to a small degree of warpage after the factory seam welded the top of the shock tower. The H&R part may fit into an un-seam welded car. This is a guess on my part though. If there are problems one could easily chuck it up in a lathe and spin off a little material.

One would then have a system almost identical to a 3.8 RSR but with softer springs and better looking N/C machined parts.

I found the best prices on the H&R to be at Tire Rack all the time or Performance Products during one of their 20% off sales.

BTW it is not all that hard to install the parts yourself......

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hi Erick:

Our billet adapters are still need for the 964 chassis.

mnettles

my first posting.....

I had PSS9's (with billet adapters) installed on my RSA in December. I've had two track weekends since then and have been extremely happy with the change in handling to date (especially steering- my car had a decided aversion to turning in prior to the PSS9's....) and have seen a marked improvement (>3 seconds) in my lap times at WSIR as a result of this change alone. They're currently adjusted at mid-range front and back- I'm working my way up to the stiffest settings.

MaryJo

Ruairidh

Welcome MaryJo. What was on your car before the PSS9's? was it stock?

mnettles

Hi Ruairidh-

My car is working its way up from garage princess (prior owner) to track car. Prior to the PSS9's, I had really worn out stock shocks and springs. Other mods completed (not including the ongoing saga of repairs....) on this work in progress are secondary bypass, catalytic converter bypass, drilled rotors with pagid orange pads, victoracers (245x45x17, 275x40x17) and miscellaneous safety and ergonomic equipment. Now that I can convince the car to turn (when I want to, not when it get's around to it), it's a blast on the track.

mj

Ruairidh

That nicely captures what most of us are trying to do with our 964's!!

forklift

Thanks Cupcar, I will go over that w/ my mechanic. I am capable of bleeding brakes, put on the SS lines, but would rather leave the suspension to an expert. That and my car sits outside under cover, so I would need to find a warm garage!

Hi MaryJo, Thanks for the feedback, it's nice to know that the 9s work well on 964s. I guess ultimately I'm still undecided, but leaning toward these from the recommendation from someone at Alex Job.

Whatever I decide, I would like to get it done before my first DE, which is 3/19.

Thanks again to everyone for their help, especially Cupcar, who has gone the extra mile to help explain the Supercups.

Freezing in VA,

Jim

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hi Jim:

One other great suspension option are the Moton Clubsports. They are a bit more $$$ than the PSS-9's but are remote-reserviour, 7-way bump and 7-way rebound adjustable shocks.

For people doing DE events, IMHO there is nothing better.

Cupcar

Steve-
How much $$$ for Motons with spring nuts, spring perches, monoball mounts, main springs/tender springs and shocks front and rear..."the whole kit" so to speak.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

The Moton Clubsports complete with the main-tender spring setup, perches, hats, locking rings, etc runs $ 3500. We tailor the spring package for the car's weight, tires, and driver experience,...

ERP Camberplates/monoballs mounts run $ 986/set of 4.

This whole setup is simply awesome and usually worth a 3-6 sec improvement in lap times over PSS-9's or other non-adjustable shocks.

Cupcar

Thanks Steve- I guess it's all a matter of old saying: "speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?" I would guess the spectrum from stock to Moton in order of increasing price would be:

Stock or M030 > Bilstein HD Shocks + Eibach or H&R spring kit ~$1200 > PSS9 ~$2000 > H&R Supercup kit + Racers group or ERP front mounts ~$3600 > Motons + ERP mounts~$4500.

My prices on some of the stuff may be off, but the progression I think is correct.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

LOL,...Given the sheer adjustability of the PSS-9's, I would rank them above the H&R Supercups.

One can add always Camberplates/monoballs to any of the coilovers, as you already know for track usage.

Indeed, speed-handling-control doesn't come cheap, but these things should always be at the top of anyone's priority lists. Predictable handling is always the most important aspect of any street and track car.

joey bagadonuts

I think your progression is right on, Cupcar.

A few more questions for Steve. Do you see any problems with using the Motons on a dual-purpose car? Are the Motons designed to deal with the hazards of street driving (potholes, construction, etc.) or would such use be better addressed with some of the other options? Are there warranty differences between the Motons and Bilsteins that we should keep in mind?

BTW Steve, I bought my sway bars and strut brace from you a few years back and they're still on my car. Good call!

Oh and MJ ... Did you have any rubbing issues with the 245/45 Kumho's up front? I've been advised to go with the 245/40's but it sounds like you've got it figured out. Did you roll your fenders? Welcome aboard, BTW.

forklift

I spoke to Steve for about 20 mins. or so this afternoon and he sold me on the Motons over the PSS9s. Hopefully my mechanic hasn't already ordered the 9s and he/we can order through Steve (and hopefully he won't shoot me for changing my mind again). So I have gone from the CC susp. to H&R to SS9s to now Motons............but I am finally confident this is my decision after speaking w/ Steve and doing a search on Moton here. It is just a bit $ more than the 9s, but sounds like get much more than that $ difference.

Thanks Steve for your time today I enjoyed speaking with you and hopefully we can work something out on the Moton's this week.

Jim