964 C4 light refurb
#691
Burning Brakes
John,
Whose seal kit are you using?
Reason I ask, a local shop was using a Victor Reinz kit for a reseal, they installed the cylinder base to case o-rings, and had severe leaking. The o-ring cross section was not uniform, once they examined after disassembly. They then ordered Porsche factory cylinder base o-rings. Those had slightly larger cross section, and were completely uniform. Problem solved.
I'm going to use a Wrightwood kit on my project.
Whose seal kit are you using?
Reason I ask, a local shop was using a Victor Reinz kit for a reseal, they installed the cylinder base to case o-rings, and had severe leaking. The o-ring cross section was not uniform, once they examined after disassembly. They then ordered Porsche factory cylinder base o-rings. Those had slightly larger cross section, and were completely uniform. Problem solved.
I'm going to use a Wrightwood kit on my project.
Last edited by Super90; 06-27-2017 at 01:00 PM.
#692
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Super90
John,
Whose seal kit are you using?
Reason I ask, a local shop was using a Victor Reinz kit for a reseal, they installed the cylinder base to case o-rings, and had severe leaking. The o-ring cross section was not uniform, once they examined after disassembly. They then ordered Porsche factory cylinder base o-rings. Those had slightly larger cross section, and were completely uniform. Problem solved.
I'm going to use a Wrightwood kit on my project.
Whose seal kit are you using?
Reason I ask, a local shop was using a Victor Reinz kit for a reseal, they installed the cylinder base to case o-rings, and had severe leaking. The o-ring cross section was not uniform, once they examined after disassembly. They then ordered Porsche factory cylinder base o-rings. Those had slightly larger cross section, and were completely uniform. Problem solved.
I'm going to use a Wrightwood kit on my project.
#693
Burning Brakes
Reportedly, though I don't have the data, Porsche calls for a 2mm cross section on those o-rings.
As for sealant on the cylinder base o-rings, their commentary was along these lines....
No direct experience myself, just sharing their methodology, as they shared it with me. Each shop has it's own preferences.
Perhaps Steve or Colin will weigh in....
I know you have been combing the "Sealant" thread on Pelican too...
As for sealant on the cylinder base o-rings, their commentary was along these lines....
They did not use Curil T. On the case spigot to cylinder base o-ring area they used Permatex 80697 copper coat spray gasket sealant applied by spraying some into a small container the used a small brush to apply it to both the grooves in the cylinder base as well as the groove on case side and a bit onto the o-ring itself. Not big globs, just enough to make sure it covers everything for a maximum seal. You don’t want it just gushing out all over the place. Common sense should be used here.
No direct experience myself, just sharing their methodology, as they shared it with me. Each shop has it's own preferences.
Perhaps Steve or Colin will weigh in....
I know you have been combing the "Sealant" thread on Pelican too...
#694
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Reportedly, though I don't have the data, Porsche calls for a 2mm cross section on those o-rings.
As for sealant on the cylinder base o-rings, their commentary was along these lines....
No direct experience myself, just sharing their methodology, as they shared it with me. Each shop has it's own preferences.
Perhaps Steve or Colin will weigh in....
I know you have been combing the "Sealant" thread on Pelican too...
As for sealant on the cylinder base o-rings, their commentary was along these lines....
They did not use Curil T. On the case spigot to cylinder base o-ring area they used Permatex 80697 copper coat spray gasket sealant applied by spraying some into a small container the used a small brush to apply it to both the grooves in the cylinder base as well as the groove on case side and a bit onto the o-ring itself. Not big globs, just enough to make sure it covers everything for a maximum seal. You don’t want it just gushing out all over the place. Common sense should be used here.
No direct experience myself, just sharing their methodology, as they shared it with me. Each shop has it's own preferences.
Perhaps Steve or Colin will weigh in....
I know you have been combing the "Sealant" thread on Pelican too...
I've done a lot of research and it is bewildering at times e.g. the local experienced mechanics don't support anything other than 574 on the case seal whereas it's Threebond on Henry's list. Then there's the trolling on Molykote 55 vs 111. The P fix it DVD isn't 100% comprehensive. Some torque settings are only mentioned in one document. I just have to choose my own path and own the decisions. I'm enjoying myself though, especially as installation is cleaner than disassembly.
#695
Burning Brakes
Those are the cylinder barrel to case O-rings? As I was so hopeful that the tc gaskets and cam o-rings would solve my only noticeable oil leak, i still have the leak. Cannot see source coz those cooling deflectors are in the way... I suspect the barrel o-rings you chaps are discussing.... Noted!
Last edited by C4inLA; 06-27-2017 at 09:54 PM.
#696
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Those are the cylinder barrel to case Orings? As I was so hopeful that the tc gaskets and cam orings would solve my only noticeable oil leak, i still have the leak. Cannot see source coz those cooling deflectors are in the way... I suspect the barrel orings you chaps are discussing.... Noted!
#697
Burning Brakes
Exactly. When I had engine on stand, shroud off and before cleaning anything, I checked the through bolt saddle and all dry as far as I could tell. But after playing with my temp gun, it is amazing these engines don't fry o-rings much sooner. Cylinder head and barrels 300F+ degrees, Cat 450F+ ... It's bloody hell in there.... I pointed it at base metal of distributors 170F ...
#698
Burning Brakes
Mine has been leaking at the cylinder bases. Pulling the motor to fix that. Since it's all coming apart, we are putting in the latest model, upgraded 3.6L pistons and cylinders.
Case through bolts are another of the "usual suspects", without a doubt. Again, VR o-rings are suspect according to a few I have talked to. Porsche original, or Wrightwood kit.
My engine builder is at a different shop. I'll ask his preference on the cylinder base o-ring sealant...
Case through bolts are another of the "usual suspects", without a doubt. Again, VR o-rings are suspect according to a few I have talked to. Porsche original, or Wrightwood kit.
My engine builder is at a different shop. I'll ask his preference on the cylinder base o-ring sealant...
#699
Race Car
^^ can one order the wrightwood kit direct or is it only available to dealers?
ps - it didnt include the RSR rocker shaft seals which are worth doing per Steve W and I did those too
ps - it didnt include the RSR rocker shaft seals which are worth doing per Steve W and I did those too
#700
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Crankshaft in place with assembly grease etc. next step is fitting the nose bearing and closing the case. That will wait until Saturday when I have lots of light, time and hopefully an awake son to hold the through bolts etc.
BTW the crank seal isn't fully inserted as I need to lift the crankshaft out slightly to fit the nose bearing.
BTW the crank seal isn't fully inserted as I need to lift the crankshaft out slightly to fit the nose bearing.
Last edited by John McM; 06-28-2017 at 06:53 AM.
#701
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I measured Porsche and Victor Reinz O rings. Porsche rings are 2.0mm in both dimensions. Victor Reinz are slightly oval with the shorter dimension being 0.06mm less. Not sure that this would necessarily matter, especially with spray sealant in there
#704
Burning Brakes
That copper spray he mentions sounds like the same the other shop discussed. I confirmed with them on that Permatex copper sealant and that is what they used. Interesting.
It's never simple...
Time will tell, as I'll most likely have the Reinzosil on mine when he does that assembly. We can compare notes in the future... 😊
Last edited by Super90; 06-28-2017 at 12:07 PM.
#705
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Per my engine builder... "He likes Reinzosil, good to 300 degrees C! Has used a silicone grease on the green viton o-rings at the base with no other sealant, at times, however. Issue with sealant is you want to clamp it down and not let up. That is a bit difficult on cylinders. The o-rings and surface finish really provide the seal. Older engines had copper gaskets, and he uses a copper spray on coating on those. This Reinzolsil works good on cam housing to head assembly too. Technique is critical to clamping it up." That copper spray he mentions sounds like the same the other shop discussed. I confirmed with them on that Permatex copper sealant and that is what they used. Interesting. It's never simple... Time will tell, as I'll most likely have the Reinzosil on mine when he does that assembly. We can compare notes in the future... dde0a
Isn't it ironic that Reinzosil is a Victor Reinz product. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be sold in NZ so Permatex is my only option.