C4inLA

I am putting car back together after engine bay cleaning and 13pt brake bleed, other maintenance. I do not remember hearing the "Bink" in rear center to rear right axle area every time I start car ? When I turn PDAs on at console, multiple sounds of all locks engaging.... So, do you folks always hear a single Lock "Bink" as described on startup? It's not Teo Locks Binking when using dial on console. Not dash warnings.

Goughary

I don't under stand exactly what you are getting at, but there is no difference between starting my car and starting a c2...so no "bink"

DobermanDad

No bunk on my C4.

C4inLA

Forget I said Bink & Bunk .. It's a lock or slave noise ... soooooo, should there be ANY noise regarding PDAS " Longitude or Lateral" at ALL when ignition is turned and Car starts?

Tease me all you want, but when I get this all sorted by das professionals, I am going test you chaps and see who is real deal and who is "posing" hehe haha ....

DobermanDad

No, only sound you should hear is the accumulator priming prior to turning the ignition. I usually hear the oil moving around once the engine fires up.

Goughary

I hate to say, I have yet to meet a "das professional" that has any clue about the pdas in a 964 c4. If they know anything, it's from the paragraph they found in a pdf of the shop manual, and they missed all the other pages that explain all that other stuff, that still doesn't explain how it all functions...so be careful not to lay down too many Deutsch Marks on people who know less than you can find out here on your own for free.

Just sayin.


Question, can you explain how the noise began? Are you sure it's not the clutch slave? And who bled your pdas system when the engine went back in? Or did they not bleed? Do they know how to bleed it?

See if you can get the car on jack stands, and put your phone near the rear diff lock, start the car and take a video and see if you can determine where the noise is coming from.

C4inLA

Goughary,
I could not have said it better, on who knows what about C4\PDAs ... I just read Adrian's stuff on RennList tech section and best info I have come across.

No engine drop, see my thread of all maintenance I did. I did the 11pt bleed with Motive Dry as I have Knockoff Hammer to bleed locks. I am going to do a complete bleed again using Motive wet or let INDY do it.... what do they use, some massive wet pressure bleeder? No way to change colors on fluid now that blue is gone.. I guess just follow quantity of each bleed per manual...

Do you know if the 30 sec warning lights on/off on every start is referring to pressurizing pump duration? I turn key to on position, wait for pump to go off then start car.... So, will see if warning lights go off quickly or not on at all.

Adrian also refers to Lock wearing out... Mechanical fail... What is involved in changing a transverse (lateral) lock on a C4?

Adrian refers to searching archives for more info, where are these archives dating back to his writings on Rennlist in 2001-2004 kind of time?

C4inLA

Hanging head in shame ... I unplugged center console spoiler and PDAs plugs yesterday and failed to mark. Today, found they have different amount of wires as one controls spoiler, one PDAs ? Look like I could reverse and want to avoid. Need help on which goes where? I would think bigger wire set goes to PDAs switch? Haven't found in manual yet, is this in wiring service manual red book?

Goughary

I don't know the answer to the wiring question, but I think you answered your own first question just above when you said you used the motive dry the first time around....you must have introduced air into the system. I don't think it's possible to bleed the accumulator or other parts of the system without filling the motive and bleeding wet.

Where are you located? We will have a car on stands in my garage tomorrow for fluids and full 13pt bleed (so long as the ate200 shows up)...and hopefully some paint feeding and correction if we have enough time.

C4inLA

Dang, if it wasn't a mere 3000 miles to your garage, I'd show up What is paint "feeding" ? I meant 13pt vs 11pt bleed as well... If your using Motive wet, be curious to hear follow up recap and how often you filled Motive and how much new fluid you go through in total ....

Goughary

Have you read Ricardo's DIY? I use that every time. I bleed mine twice per year typically and I suggest the same to friends. There is a lot of fluid in these cars and a lot of lines and two diff locks typically with bad seals, though I have rebuilt mine with the ninemeister seal kit...and anyway all that means air can find ways in particularly when the pressure valves and seals get old. Plus fluid sucks in water and with all the copper you get a ton of corrosion mixing into the fluid...and that eventually damages seals and clogs valves etc...

Paint feeding:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...ge-paints.html

Ricardo DIY:
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...procedure.html

Feel free to pm me and grab my number. Happy to talk if you need any help. I don't have all the info about everything, but some about some things..lol..

Remember. You can never change fluids too often. You catch an aweful lot of stuff just because you are looking along the way. And the car will always be happier on fresh fluids. So change oil 3-5k, change trans and diff fluid every 10k or so...some say 15k...and change brake fluid in the entire system, twice per year. Once at least...

Power steering fluid? Haven't touched mine, but that's gotta get done soon...

C4inLA

I did read Ricardo's great thread a few times... Will go back and check did he bleed wet.

Gear oil first change in 43k miles .. 19 years... Thought manuals suggested 60k... Yikes, i'll have to review that... The two Diff locks you mention are PDAs locks, correct? These locks are open when PDAs not active, correct? I've read 3-4 of Adrian's Awd writings.. I do recall when using my knockoff hammer to build pressure and then hit start to bleed "pulse" respective lock solenoid, that one of locks barely produced a dribble... Hmmm. ....

Goughary

Oh no...if you are using a pdt999, and you bleed the locks, the fluid squirts out with pressure and you bleed 250ml quickly...

So if that's not the case, you're lock may be seized, or the pressure valve in the line could be blocked or seized...

My rear most diff lock was completely seized when I rebuilt it using the 9m seals...this was due 100% to 18 years of das professionals not bleeding the system.

Goughary

Btw, another great idea came from nick in Boston...replace your bleed nipples on the diff locks with speed bleeders. This way you can bleed with the diff lock switch in the car or with the pdt999, but either way you aren't going to allow air back in that end.


Oh. And one more thing. When you do the wet bleed, don't pump the motive more than 15lbs of pressure. And cover everything In the trunk and make sure not to spill. More pressure and you risk having something pop or break up there and you'll have a few liters of fluid in the trunk eating your paint.

John McM

Good timing. Do you have a link to the correct speed bleeders? Was it the Russell 639630 Domestic Speed Bleeder?