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I agree. I cant believe this would cost 20K.. some screwed on fender flares and wide wheels? There must be more to it.. but still.
Craftsmanship and knowledge comes with a price.
The wheels he's putting on these cars probably value between 5-7k including tires. That's a large chunk of the cost. So with that remaining money, he had to hand mold every bumper, fender, side skirt, and possibly wing. If you think you can do that all on your own, hand deliver and personally install on every car for less than 20k ... be our guest.
The $20k does not include wheels, but does include the cost of Nakai's trip from Japan (presumably flight, hotel, food, cigarettes?). Here is some sample pricing.
The wheels he's putting on these cars probably value between 5-7k including tires. That's a large chunk of the cost. So with that remaining money, he had to hand mold every bumper, fender, side skirt, and possibly wing. If you think you can do that all on your own, hand deliver and personally install on every car for less than 20k ... be our guest.
After Market Wide Body
I agree with Andrew there's clear craftsmanship at what level I don't know. But his aftermarket look wide body kits are definitely better IMHO than other kits that are out there.
Personal Preference
As to whether you prefer a wide body with original steel Porsche arches or RWB is anyones preference. But IMHO you can't beat Porsche fit and finish with original arches. From my understanding RWB are composite arches.
Form Follows Function
The main problem some have with RWB is that some of their cars are built purely to look fast as opposed to perform fast. Most here would favour performance first and aesthetic after as they buy into the Porsche philosophy.
"Design must be functional, and functionality must be translated into visual aesthetics without any reliance on gimmicks that have to be explained."
- Ferdinand Porsche
I could quote Porsche function over form quote forever... Personally I like the RWBs perform how they look and on track. But I'd spend money on all performance bits first. I also prefer their more subtle kits with smooth non bolt arches.
Preservation
The other issue a lot have is that quite a few of them are based on perfectly presentable 964s. Seeing Nakai electric saw through a perfectly good arch is obviously going to be difficult.
Nakai
Well he can't really screen his clients to find out if they are go car guys. Although I'm sure he prefers track RWBs to airbag, tip, targa ones. He's a business so I have no qualms with him... I just don't get some of his bling, bling customers.
This RWB
Is clearly not a Porsche philosophy RWB and that's why the Renn community here don't like it.
Price
It's just difficult to digest how the worth of an RWB is more than the sum of all the parts all together... mental. Which I believe is the point Jack.Pe is making.
Last edited by BLACK-BETTY; 01-06-2015 at 03:49 PM.
Putting both the cars up for sale really just grinds my gears. Seems like an attempt to make profit on RWB cars which are obviously rare here. But the flaw is that most people who can afford to get one, want their own build, with the experience and everything.
Putting both the cars up for sale really just grinds my gears. Seems like an attempt to make profit on RWB cars which are obviously rare here. But the flaw is that most people who can afford to get one, want their own build, with the experience and everything.
I'll just say this what I said in the other thread....I love the RWB style but 20k seems a bit much for just a body kit. Yes, I get the fact he's an artist as much as Kato-San is with Liberty Walk but seriously. You wouldn't think the wheels come with it for the complete package instead as extras. Experience they say? I suspect a reach around must be involved and that it's straight JDM yo LOL
"Design must be functional, and functionality must be translated into visual aesthetics without any reliance on gimmicks that have to be explained."
- Ferdinand Porsche
A great quote!
However, here's a wide-body car with bolt-on fenders, splitters and a spoiler from an Airbus A380. Remind you of anything? Well, in this case, it's a factory Porsche 993 GT2...
While I'm not a fan of the RWB aesthetic (or the 993 GT2's for that matter), I'm not sure why there are so many RWB critics. Yes, you have to hack up a perfectly good car to make an RWB, but you also have to do that to make any number of tribute cars (911ST, 911RS, etc.) or to build a car like the Singer. Do we disagree with all of those efforts? Well, I know that some of you do...
Sure, the levels of craftsmanship can vary significantly with all of these modded cars, but the bottom line in my book is that whoever owns a given car should be able to do whatever they darn please with THEIR car, which also includes making it better, making it ugly, or selling it. After all, if it weren't for all of those badly done conversions back in the '80s, where else would we be getting our back-date project cars today?
At the end of the day, the Porsche world is incredibly diverse, and it now even includes sedan and SUV owners. Heck, Porsche has even embraced the Urban Outlaw in its own ad campaigns (you should have seen my jaw drop when I heard about this during a meeting with Porsche's ad agency). And for the record, I mean no offense to Magnus; I just thought Porsche was much more conservative than this...
So, whether you are a keep-it-stock purist, R-Grupper, Urban Outlaw, hot-rodder, back-dater, RWB-er, Singer guy, Ruf fan - whatever, to each his or her own. I like you all, because you keep the market for air-cooled cars vibrant, and by doing so, you all help to ensure that parts (OEM and aftermarket) will be available for our ever-aging cars for a good long-time. If no one cared about the air-cooled cars the way we did, imagine how much more a basic replacement part would cost today. So, really, it's not all bad.
In any event, I'll get off my soap box and do my part. I promise not to mock anyone here for the choices they make on their cars, no matter how egregious the offense. ;-)
Live and let live is what I say. I think some of them look cool, wouldn't personally have one since it wouldn't fit in my garage The price is what the market will bear and it is what it is - I suspect it's probably cheaper to have your car shipped over to Japan and have it done there if you can sort out the logistics.
What I will say it that some RWB cars come through the Jap auctions from time to time and in my experience there isn't a premium over factory cars - in fact they are probably cheaper.
01-06-2015, 01:59 AM
) people won't like what I'm doing to The Pit, won't stop me doing it....
The price is what the market will bear and it is what it is - I suspect it's probably cheaper to have your car shipped over to Japan and have it done there if you can sort out the logistics.