Super charger - a good idea?
08-20-2003, 06:24 AM
#1
Race Car
Thread Starter
Super charger - a good idea?
I've mentioned in another thread (brake upgrade) that I'm thinking of going the super charger route, but I thought I would start a new subject to see what views people have.
It looks like I have to change insurers when I renew in a few weeks - NU Direct will not insure a super charged car even with brake / suspension upgrades so I need a policy where I still have that option. But, Hill House Hammond are only quoting £35 more with the car in it's current modified state (wheels, suspension). And then - the really good bit - since the car is already "modified", adding a super charger doesn't change anything and the premium doesn't increase! Maybe insurers are not so bad after all.....
Anyway - anyone have any comments on super chargers? Any horror stories?
To make a few things clear - I'm not expecting to be able to shoot down twisty roads any quicker as a result of this, and I know that a Driver Ed course would make me a quicker driver. But that's not what I'm looking for. I find the car quick enough in that kind of environment - what I actually want is more "go" in a straight line - e.g. when I am overtaking someone, or when I am at the traffic light drag race with some souped up Renault Clio.
Ignoring the cost, it seems like the super charger will give me that (big torque increase) with no down side that I can see. I don't care about increased tyre wear / increased fuel consumption since these are consumable items anyway. I do care if it means my engine will expire tomorrow (although it should be fairly healthy since it had a top end rebuild about 20K miles ago).
The two main factors which make this mod very tempting are :
1) My car will be faster than Christers car
2) Because of 1), Christer will apparently get a slap from his girlfriend.
Any thoughts? Apart from paying for it I can't see any disadvantages to doing it. Anyone know any different?
It looks like I have to change insurers when I renew in a few weeks - NU Direct will not insure a super charged car even with brake / suspension upgrades so I need a policy where I still have that option. But, Hill House Hammond are only quoting £35 more with the car in it's current modified state (wheels, suspension). And then - the really good bit - since the car is already "modified", adding a super charger doesn't change anything and the premium doesn't increase! Maybe insurers are not so bad after all.....
Anyway - anyone have any comments on super chargers? Any horror stories?
To make a few things clear - I'm not expecting to be able to shoot down twisty roads any quicker as a result of this, and I know that a Driver Ed course would make me a quicker driver. But that's not what I'm looking for. I find the car quick enough in that kind of environment - what I actually want is more "go" in a straight line - e.g. when I am overtaking someone, or when I am at the traffic light drag race with some souped up Renault Clio.
Ignoring the cost, it seems like the super charger will give me that (big torque increase) with no down side that I can see. I don't care about increased tyre wear / increased fuel consumption since these are consumable items anyway. I do care if it means my engine will expire tomorrow (although it should be fairly healthy since it had a top end rebuild about 20K miles ago).
The two main factors which make this mod very tempting are :
1) My car will be faster than Christers car
2) Because of 1), Christer will apparently get a slap from his girlfriend.
Any thoughts? Apart from paying for it I can't see any disadvantages to doing it. Anyone know any different?
08-20-2003, 06:54 AM
#2
LOL - the second reason being the main incentive. You are a funny guy.
To be honest, there are a few people around especially 993's that have had this done. Most importantly IMHO, 9M seem to stand by their work and if something went wrong or there was a problem I am sure they would step up to the plate. The only problem is that they are not local to us - which to my mind is not key. Your engine has had a rebuild so that is not / should not be a problem.
I would have a good chat with Colin to put all your concerns to bed, give me a call if you want to share opinions, ideas or just for fun on this. If you speak to him this week, call me at the weekend?
To be honest, there are a few people around especially 993's that have had this done. Most importantly IMHO, 9M seem to stand by their work and if something went wrong or there was a problem I am sure they would step up to the plate. The only problem is that they are not local to us - which to my mind is not key. Your engine has had a rebuild so that is not / should not be a problem.
I would have a good chat with Colin to put all your concerns to bed, give me a call if you want to share opinions, ideas or just for fun on this. If you speak to him this week, call me at the weekend?
08-20-2003, 08:12 AM
#3
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Dave
I can totally see your point of view on this - I have the same thoughts on power. I've not driven a supercharged 964, but have tried other cars so equipped and they've been fun. What sort of power are you expecting to get? Good 964 engines seem to cope with 300bhp without problem.
By coincidence, I've just had an email from a guy with a supercharged 964, offering to let us do a feature on it. He's somewhere in Sussex...
Maybe Christer would enjoy being slapped?
I'll keep you posted.
Cheers
I can totally see your point of view on this - I have the same thoughts on power. I've not driven a supercharged 964, but have tried other cars so equipped and they've been fun. What sort of power are you expecting to get? Good 964 engines seem to cope with 300bhp without problem.
By coincidence, I've just had an email from a guy with a supercharged 964, offering to let us do a feature on it. He's somewhere in Sussex...
Maybe Christer would enjoy being slapped?
I'll keep you posted.
Cheers
08-20-2003, 08:23 AM
#4
Race Car
Thread Starter
Christer - I've exchanged emails with 9M and I must admit, I don't have many concerns left. I agree with you that I think they know what they are doing and stick by their work.
My main reservations are :
1) In the future it may make the car hard to sell - but 9M say it can be returned to stock if I keep the original inlet system
2) It only makes sense if I keep the car for a good few years, whereas I've always seen my 964 as a stepping stone to a 993TT. But the main reason I want that is for the extra power and I'm hoping the super charger will give enough that I no longer feel the need to do that - so effectively saving me about £20K (is my logic flawed at all?).
I am actually 90% of the way to deciding to book it in, which is a bit scary given that I only thought about it a few days ago. The things I'm waiting for are :
- clarification from colin about the minimum I can get away with on brakes. I won't do it if it will cost me another few £K to sort that
- A reply from Mark Budgen on the 993 board. Sent him a PM - he's only 10 miles away and has a 993 tip super charged by 9M.
May well call you for a chat at the weekend - although it might even be booked by then......
Phil - 9M quote 320bhp+, and they say that's probably conservative. Sounds good to me!
Any chance you could forward my email details to the Sussex guy and see if he would like to get in touch? I really would like to try before I buy and Sussex is not far from me.
I certainly don't want to see if Christer likes being slapped myself. I can say that even though I've never met her, I think his girlfriend must be a very special lady indeed!
My main reservations are :
1) In the future it may make the car hard to sell - but 9M say it can be returned to stock if I keep the original inlet system
2) It only makes sense if I keep the car for a good few years, whereas I've always seen my 964 as a stepping stone to a 993TT. But the main reason I want that is for the extra power and I'm hoping the super charger will give enough that I no longer feel the need to do that - so effectively saving me about £20K (is my logic flawed at all?).
I am actually 90% of the way to deciding to book it in, which is a bit scary given that I only thought about it a few days ago. The things I'm waiting for are :
- clarification from colin about the minimum I can get away with on brakes. I won't do it if it will cost me another few £K to sort that
- A reply from Mark Budgen on the 993 board. Sent him a PM - he's only 10 miles away and has a 993 tip super charged by 9M.
May well call you for a chat at the weekend - although it might even be booked by then......
Phil - 9M quote 320bhp+, and they say that's probably conservative. Sounds good to me!
Any chance you could forward my email details to the Sussex guy and see if he would like to get in touch? I really would like to try before I buy and Sussex is not far from me.
I certainly don't want to see if Christer likes being slapped myself. I can say that even though I've never met her, I think his girlfriend must be a very special lady indeed!
08-20-2003, 09:00 AM
#5
hmm, I think I will have to take your comment re girlfriend as a compliment to her even though it is obviously a huge put-down directed at me! I told her what you said and she happens to agree!
Anyway, the logic re 993TT sounds good to me. I don't have an upgrade path in the Porsche range right now due to my preference for the 964 shape. Making my car faster and improving it IMHO is the best way forward for me. I could buy a 996 (if I wanted one) but then I would only have depreciation eating away at my wallet instead of mods. And mods are more fun.
Call me anytime. Thís sounds like fun. If I am able I would be happy to drive up with you as I want to see 9M anyway. I can always drop you back in London if that helps?
I told her what you said and she happens to agree!Anyway, the logic re 993TT sounds good to me. I don't have an upgrade path in the Porsche range right now due to my preference for the 964 shape. Making my car faster and improving it IMHO is the best way forward for me. I could buy a 996 (if I wanted one) but then I would only have depreciation eating away at my wallet instead of mods. And mods are more fun.
Call me anytime. Thís sounds like fun. If I am able I would be happy to drive up with you as I want to see 9M anyway. I can always drop you back in London if that helps?
08-20-2003, 11:24 AM
#6
Race Car
Thread Starter
Christer,
Probably call you at the weekend. Might take you up on the travel idea if all goes well.
Just waiting for Colin to tell me about the brakes - think I have made up my mind that if I can get away with just pads I'm booking it. If it means new calipers / disks etc. I will have to forget it (at least for now) because it's more than I want to spend. Still want to try either the 993 or 964 to see what to expect, but I'm fairly confident.
What fun!
Probably call you at the weekend. Might take you up on the travel idea if all goes well.
Just waiting for Colin to tell me about the brakes - think I have made up my mind that if I can get away with just pads I'm booking it. If it means new calipers / disks etc. I will have to forget it (at least for now) because it's more than I want to spend. Still want to try either the 993 or 964 to see what to expect, but I'm fairly confident.
What fun!
Trending Topics
08-20-2003, 09:23 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: WhippetWorld, .........is it really only this many
Posts: 1,081
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
DaveK,
As for the insurance question I`m sure it would be easier and cheaper to change insurance companies than upgrade the brakes. BTW I`m with NU direct and I pay less than you; if you need a quote always speak to them direct and if there`s an idiot on the line try again.
As to 9M - they have my business and so far I can`t critisise there work or charges (relatively) and I`ve had a fair bit of non standard mods done.
As to the supercharger; Colin`s probably already explained why its a good idea and the fact that its low boost at high demand (a small pump feeding a large pump) means that its safe but provides loads of torque instantly. All of which is no doubt true and for road applications where power is everything there is no equal in the bang per buck/reliability stakes. I personaly have heard no bad reports of this conversion done by 9M for road use. If thats what you want it for then go for it.
But, as with all forced induction there is the detonation issue ( not really a problem with this until you up the boost AFAIK. Mark Budgen, I understand increased his boost ( I expect you have done a search or read his previous posts) and the problems relating to intake temps ( not likely to be a problem unless you increase boost or track the car and get heat soak)
The other problem is that you can never have enough power - you always get used to it. Andy Green had over 10 000 lbs of thrust and still complained that 12miles was too short for the power available, so the temptation is to modify for more and supercharger conversions are not as good for big HP as turbos. £ for £ turbos give far more power but the intial cost is higher. If you are sure you`ll be happy with the power of the conversion indefinatly then its the way forward but if not then consider a turbo conversion.
As for the insurance question I`m sure it would be easier and cheaper to change insurance companies than upgrade the brakes. BTW I`m with NU direct and I pay less than you; if you need a quote always speak to them direct and if there`s an idiot on the line try again.
As to 9M - they have my business and so far I can`t critisise there work or charges (relatively) and I`ve had a fair bit of non standard mods done.
As to the supercharger; Colin`s probably already explained why its a good idea and the fact that its low boost at high demand (a small pump feeding a large pump) means that its safe but provides loads of torque instantly. All of which is no doubt true and for road applications where power is everything there is no equal in the bang per buck/reliability stakes. I personaly have heard no bad reports of this conversion done by 9M for road use. If thats what you want it for then go for it.
But, as with all forced induction there is the detonation issue ( not really a problem with this until you up the boost AFAIK. Mark Budgen, I understand increased his boost ( I expect you have done a search or read his previous posts) and the problems relating to intake temps ( not likely to be a problem unless you increase boost or track the car and get heat soak)
The other problem is that you can never have enough power - you always get used to it. Andy Green had over 10 000 lbs of thrust and still complained that 12miles was too short for the power available, so the temptation is to modify for more and supercharger conversions are not as good for big HP as turbos. £ for £ turbos give far more power but the intial cost is higher. If you are sure you`ll be happy with the power of the conversion indefinatly then its the way forward but if not then consider a turbo conversion.
08-21-2003, 03:15 AM
#10
Race Car
Thread Starter
Tony,
Cheers for the answers.
The insurance is unfortunately after talking to them direct. I think the 2 years NCD and 12K miles a year wacks the premium up. It's the new insurers who insist on something with the brakes - NU just said "Super charger? No way!".
I've decided the brakes are the deciding factor - I will not spend several £K on them now for two reasons : the initial cost, compared to just the super charger, but also - the car is being serviced at the moment and I needed new pads + slider plates all round, and calipers refurbed to get rid of corrosion. I am not paying out the £600 or so I think it's cost me for that so I can then take them off and chuck them away!
I agree - there is never enough power. But I think that low down, a super charger will be better than a turbo and at the moment that's what I think I need. Maybe I should just see the super charger as making the wait for a 993 TT easier, rather than an actual replacement.............
Cheers for the answers.
The insurance is unfortunately after talking to them direct. I think the 2 years NCD and 12K miles a year wacks the premium up. It's the new insurers who insist on something with the brakes - NU just said "Super charger? No way!".
I've decided the brakes are the deciding factor - I will not spend several £K on them now for two reasons : the initial cost, compared to just the super charger, but also - the car is being serviced at the moment and I needed new pads + slider plates all round, and calipers refurbed to get rid of corrosion. I am not paying out the £600 or so I think it's cost me for that so I can then take them off and chuck them away!
I agree - there is never enough power. But I think that low down, a super charger will be better than a turbo and at the moment that's what I think I need. Maybe I should just see the super charger as making the wait for a 993 TT easier, rather than an actual replacement.............
08-21-2003, 08:33 AM
#11
Race Car
Thread Starter
Just had a word with Colin at 9M. Although he would recommend upgrading the brakes (particularly the front) he doesn't see it as a necessity - apparently, the brakes are basically the same as an '89 turbo which made 300 odd bhp anyway. It is unfortunate that I got the timing slightly wrong since it looks like the cost of the upgrade wouldn't be much more than the cost of having my pads / slider plates / caliper corrosion sorted at the start of this week.
So - the good news is, the brakes do not stop the upgrade from taking place. I'm just waiting to hear from the guy Phil mentioned in Sussex (who's installation was by 9M apparently), and assuming that's positive I will book the car in. Looks like it would be a 4-5 week wait, but all being well I could be driving a 320+bhp car by the start of October........
So - the good news is, the brakes do not stop the upgrade from taking place. I'm just waiting to hear from the guy Phil mentioned in Sussex (who's installation was by 9M apparently), and assuming that's positive I will book the car in. Looks like it would be a 4-5 week wait, but all being well I could be driving a 320+bhp car by the start of October........
08-21-2003, 09:06 AM
#14
Race Car
Thread Starter
Heard you spoke to Colin yesterday but assume you'll still be coming up with me all being well. Think you should make it when I collect the car rather than when I drop it off. Then, we can sort out a ride in it - but also, I get the chance to prove my cars faster than your car!
08-21-2003, 10:48 AM
#15
I am game whichever way works out to be possible. Maybe both ways, depending on my own requirements. Either way, there would be plenty of opportunity on our regular drives to show us who is the daddy...