Getting better at track days
10-21-2014, 01:12 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Getting better at track days
Is the only way to get better at track days to do more track days?
I've done 4 or 5 now and had tuition at all of them. With the instructor in the car I drive OK. Pretty much as soon as he get out I start to get slower and slower, and more and more nervous about a losing it, particularly in fast corners.
Is there a specific event or training that helps novice / unskilled drivers get better and get more confidence? I did "you drive@porsche" at Silverstone, and that was useful to learn how the car behaves when it loses traction, but is all low-speed stuff.
Track days are pretty expensive and I am wondering if there is a more effective, and possibly cheaper, route to driving god status?
I've done 4 or 5 now and had tuition at all of them. With the instructor in the car I drive OK. Pretty much as soon as he get out I start to get slower and slower, and more and more nervous about a losing it, particularly in fast corners.
Is there a specific event or training that helps novice / unskilled drivers get better and get more confidence? I did "you drive@porsche" at Silverstone, and that was useful to learn how the car behaves when it loses traction, but is all low-speed stuff.
Track days are pretty expensive and I am wondering if there is a more effective, and possibly cheaper, route to driving god status?
10-21-2014, 01:25 PM
#2
Race Director
I do DE days at the local tracks in my 964. The comfort is a lot to do about confidence in your abilities, combined with how well you know the limits of your car. A lot of people out here do Autocrosses, I don't know that you have them in the UK, but it is lower speed around cones, so you get to know the limits of the car.
For me a lot of comfort came with the Roll Bar, racing seats and 6 point harnesses. I've spun a number of times and it is a learning experience each time. I've been lucky to have done no damage to the car so far, so that helps.
I'd post this in the racing and DE forum for some better advice.
For me a lot of comfort came with the Roll Bar, racing seats and 6 point harnesses. I've spun a number of times and it is a learning experience each time. I've been lucky to have done no damage to the car so far, so that helps.
I'd post this in the racing and DE forum for some better advice.
10-21-2014, 01:39 PM
#4
Three Wheelin'
Is the only way to get better at track days to do more track days?
I've done 4 or 5 now and had tuition at all of them. With the instructor in the car I drive OK. Pretty much as soon as he get out I start to get slower and slower, and more and more nervous about a losing it, particularly in fast corners.
Is there a specific event or training that helps novice / unskilled drivers get better and get more confidence? I did "you drive@porsche" at Silverstone, and that was useful to learn how the car behaves when it loses traction, but is all low-speed stuff.
Track days are pretty expensive and I am wondering if there is a more effective, and possibly cheaper, route to driving god status?
I've done 4 or 5 now and had tuition at all of them. With the instructor in the car I drive OK. Pretty much as soon as he get out I start to get slower and slower, and more and more nervous about a losing it, particularly in fast corners.
Is there a specific event or training that helps novice / unskilled drivers get better and get more confidence? I did "you drive@porsche" at Silverstone, and that was useful to learn how the car behaves when it loses traction, but is all low-speed stuff.
Track days are pretty expensive and I am wondering if there is a more effective, and possibly cheaper, route to driving god status?
10-21-2014, 01:52 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
KaiB started a good thread on this a while back:
The (Semi-Official) 964 Driving Tips Thread
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=19642
The (Semi-Official) 964 Driving Tips Thread
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=19642
10-21-2014, 01:54 PM
#6
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The best way to get better is to be better.
There are a gazillion things you can do to improve your track skills on public roads while never exceeding the posted speed limits. If you thinks about it, there is NOTHING we do on the track that we don't do each and every time we drive our cars.
On the track, regardless of our experience and skill level, we are either driving in a straight line, braking and downshifting, turning the car and accelerating. All of this may occur more quickly than it does on the roads, but it's the same stuff.
There is NO reason your heel/toe, for instance, can't be made PERFECT on the road.
Here's a biggie: Vision. Don't have to be on the track to develop this habit. I have yet to have a student who doesn't need work on this, and have yet to meet an experienced racer who doesn't work on his vision always.
There are a gazillion things you can do to improve your track skills on public roads while never exceeding the posted speed limits. If you thinks about it, there is NOTHING we do on the track that we don't do each and every time we drive our cars.
On the track, regardless of our experience and skill level, we are either driving in a straight line, braking and downshifting, turning the car and accelerating. All of this may occur more quickly than it does on the roads, but it's the same stuff.
There is NO reason your heel/toe, for instance, can't be made PERFECT on the road.
Here's a biggie: Vision. Don't have to be on the track to develop this habit. I have yet to have a student who doesn't need work on this, and have yet to meet an experienced racer who doesn't work on his vision always.
10-21-2014, 02:17 PM
#7
Racer
Thread Starter
Thanks for the advice chaps.
Talat - the Andy Walsh course looks pretty good value and isn't too far from me.
Mondrian - No, all different - an airfield day, Snetterton, the 'Ring, Spa and Castle Combe (although 4 terrified laps of the 'Ring, in the rain and fog don't really count!)
KaiB - Good point. I do try to do some of this already (heel & toe for example) and "vision" is something both track and mountain bike instructors have picked me up on - it must be a universal truth in propelled sport! I haven't thought about applying this to normal road driving though - food for thought.
Talat - the Andy Walsh course looks pretty good value and isn't too far from me.
Mondrian - No, all different - an airfield day, Snetterton, the 'Ring, Spa and Castle Combe (although 4 terrified laps of the 'Ring, in the rain and fog don't really count!)
KaiB - Good point. I do try to do some of this already (heel & toe for example) and "vision" is something both track and mountain bike instructors have picked me up on - it must be a universal truth in propelled sport! I haven't thought about applying this to normal road driving though - food for thought.
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10-21-2014, 02:27 PM
#8
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Billy, I consider bouncing a Mbike down a trail or a road bike down an Italian mountain FAR more terrifying than racing at the very limit.
But the vision thing is huge, and easily practiced always.
Get your H/T perfect always. No need to track to do this...the boys on your side of the pond can help with the track day expense. Yep, it can cost, but many less expensive days can also be found...a corner is a corner, need not be the Spa.
But the vision thing is huge, and easily practiced always.
Get your H/T perfect always. No need to track to do this...the boys on your side of the pond can help with the track day expense. Yep, it can cost, but many less expensive days can also be found...a corner is a corner, need not be the Spa.
10-21-2014, 02:43 PM
#10
Race Car
To add...
Get out on a skid pad . Spend some time really getting a feel for the car at speed a corner, how to control it with the throttle, get to know where the limits are in a place where you aren't concerned about hitting a wall. Your level of understanding of the car will greatly appreciate and your confidence on the track will increase as well.
And then I agree w Kai. Learn how to look and how to see, and learn to heal and toe smoothly. Later you can learn trail braking, left foot braking etc, which is especially important if you track a c4. See "wringing out the carrera 4", for what's probably the best description there..
If you have a stock pedal setup, change the accelerator pedal to one that gets closer to the brake pedal so heal and toe can be more natural. And if you go with an adjustable pedal, you can set it up for street or track, since the amount of brake you apply on the street isn't close to track driving...
Get out on a skid pad . Spend some time really getting a feel for the car at speed a corner, how to control it with the throttle, get to know where the limits are in a place where you aren't concerned about hitting a wall. Your level of understanding of the car will greatly appreciate and your confidence on the track will increase as well.
And then I agree w Kai. Learn how to look and how to see, and learn to heal and toe smoothly. Later you can learn trail braking, left foot braking etc, which is especially important if you track a c4. See "wringing out the carrera 4", for what's probably the best description there..
If you have a stock pedal setup, change the accelerator pedal to one that gets closer to the brake pedal so heal and toe can be more natural. And if you go with an adjustable pedal, you can set it up for street or track, since the amount of brake you apply on the street isn't close to track driving...
10-21-2014, 03:16 PM
#12
Three Wheelin'
Is the only way to get better at track days to do more track days?
I've done 4 or 5 now and had tuition at all of them. With the instructor in the car I drive OK. Pretty much as soon as he get out I start to get slower and slower, and more and more nervous about a losing it, particularly in fast corners.
I've done 4 or 5 now and had tuition at all of them. With the instructor in the car I drive OK. Pretty much as soon as he get out I start to get slower and slower, and more and more nervous about a losing it, particularly in fast corners.
PS it also helps to be really fit, next time wear a HRM and see how high your HeatRate beats on track.
10-22-2014, 04:25 AM
#13
Rennlist Member
I think you need to try and just learn one circuit at a time and learn it well. Not that I myself do track days. You have done 4 different tracks etc. and not learnt how to drive one of them well enough to give you confidence when driving them alone . Also get in touch/meet ip with someone like Boxsey (Steve) who knows a few tracks well and can guide you. Steve lives up north so after getting in touch he may introduce you to someone who lives closer to you and you can 'buddy up' with? It's a lot easier learning from someone with more experience and confidence than trying to do it alone! Brian.
10-22-2014, 06:23 AM
#14
Nordschleife Master
Billy, I'm guessing that your on track instruction has been just the odd 20 minute slot with the resident instructors that are there on the day? These are fine for getting to know the circuit but not long enough to improve your skills. To get more out of instruction you need to hire an instructor for the day so that he/she is in with you for just about every session. You'll learn so much more that way. Especially because they will then have more time to pick up on what they need to work on with you. I've found that it also works well to hire one instructor between two people. This gives you a breather i.e. one session with instructor, one session to practice what you've just learned and then repeat. Sharing also makes the cost of the instructor more manageable...about £150 each. It's money very well spent.
Airfield handling days are great for developing car control skills for the times that you need to correct the car as it gets out of shape. However, they don't really teach you to go faster. The keys to going faster that the instructor will teach on track are those that are in Kai's thread....vision, better braking, smooth inputs, placement of the car, driving it from the rear and more. Hence why I think on track instruction is better than control days.
Airfield handling days are great for developing car control skills for the times that you need to correct the car as it gets out of shape. However, they don't really teach you to go faster. The keys to going faster that the instructor will teach on track are those that are in Kai's thread....vision, better braking, smooth inputs, placement of the car, driving it from the rear and more. Hence why I think on track instruction is better than control days.
10-22-2014, 10:24 AM
#15
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Thoughts...
I think the desire to want to improve is a big deal!
One's willingness to "admit" that he only drives at a certain level opens doors for training that 99.999% of the other guys on the road will never approach. I congratulate each and every person who treads this far.
If you think about it, getting a car from point A to point B is not a difficult endeavor these days. If we put the same effort into driving (well) that we would have had to ride a horse day in and day out, ALL of us would be better. Understanding this and allowing advice to be given and accepting training is something that VERY few drivers actually do.
One of the biggest challenges a track day instructor faces during casual events (i.e. the kind of open track day, come all events) is helping a guy get over the fact that he is NOT a driver...merely just another who has driven forever and thinks he can do it. Some never get past that point - they normally fade away.
It's difficult to get good, as it is with any other skill. Cheers to everyone who cares to. We're already doing stuff that most don't even dare to dream about.
I think the desire to want to improve is a big deal!
One's willingness to "admit" that he only drives at a certain level opens doors for training that 99.999% of the other guys on the road will never approach. I congratulate each and every person who treads this far.
If you think about it, getting a car from point A to point B is not a difficult endeavor these days. If we put the same effort into driving (well) that we would have had to ride a horse day in and day out, ALL of us would be better. Understanding this and allowing advice to be given and accepting training is something that VERY few drivers actually do.
One of the biggest challenges a track day instructor faces during casual events (i.e. the kind of open track day, come all events) is helping a guy get over the fact that he is NOT a driver...merely just another who has driven forever and thinks he can do it. Some never get past that point - they normally fade away.
It's difficult to get good, as it is with any other skill. Cheers to everyone who cares to. We're already doing stuff that most don't even dare to dream about.