UK 964 meet completed. Met a nice TWSNBN
08-11-2003, 07:19 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
UK 964 meet completed. Met a nice TWSNBN
Dave K, Riccardo and I met up yesterday and arranged with Piers (ex 964, now owner of 'that-which-shall-not-be-named') to meet up in Norfolk where Piers spends some of his weekends terrorising the local populace. More on that later...
The drive up from M11, Junction 8 services took around 2 hours due to some traffic. With Dave K leading part of the way the pace was brisk to say the least and we managed to overtake in 'three-ship' formation several times as we moved in a vaguely northerly direction. As some will know, we have had a heatwave in the UK and the temp yesterday reached 38.1degC, that's 101Fahrenheit to the traditionalists. I don't have aircon, so the windows were fully down all day, both Dave and Riccardo at several times during the day displayed various degrees of smugness as I went from normal to an alarming red colur depending on the temperature and speed we were going.
Anyway, as some of you might know by now Piers has a new toy. It is Speed Yellow and it is an RS (and it rumbles). It is not a 996 and it is not a 964. There, I have avoided saying 'that-which-shall-not-be-named' but you get the message right? Having arrived at Piers's abode and immediately emptied his fridge of anything liquid it was suggested that Piers take us for a '3-ship' blast around his local countryside, with him leading of course. After we all had drooled about the same amount of liquid we had only moments earlier drunk over the sound of his exhaust, we set off.
My own impressions of 'that-which-shall-not-be-named's (actually, I am tired of typing that so it is from now on going to be TWSNBN) is that it looks great and quite different from the standard model. I am not sure in what way specifically, but it definitely looks like it has a fatter **** than standard. Oh yeah, and it's low - did I also mention the exhaust note?
Piers started off gently with Riccardo in the TWSNBN, I followed him and Dave followed me. With 2 up, the TWSNBN did pull away but not as much as I thought. I think the Varioram generates a lot of torque straightaway but loses some top end (my speculation only), so the result was that Piers pulled away quite nicely but not as much as I thought. We continued this for another half an hour, with TWSNBN flexing its muscles and our 964's keeping up, but only just!
After half an hour, we had lunch at a very charming country-pub which almost coincidentally is literally 20 yards from Piers' house.
After lunch, it got better. I offered my car to Dave K (he has a C4), so that he could compare mine to his whilst I went with Piers in the TWSNBN. My immediate observation was that the suspension is very stiff, but not at all harsh. It felt a lot like my C2, but a little more refined. This was a big surprise as the only other RS I have been in was a 964 which would have been VERY harsh over the roads we were travelling along. You could live with this for a dalily driver IMHO. After a few miles, Piers offered to let me drive his car which I am very grateful for (thanks a million), for a few minutes (he tried not to show it but I think it was all he could take - I have driven alot of LHD's in my time but I don't think it helped). The driveline is very sharp with no 'looseness' - not that 964's have much but this was slightly tighter. The gear change requires less effort but the change is slightly notchier and imprecise (IMHO). The throttle response is very good and I think in a road-going version of this model, the varioram really suits it. You stuff the pedal at 2000+rpms and the car takes off like it has a supercharger.
After biting his nails for a few minutes Piers took over again and we a few miles later showed a TVR Chimaera what a sportscar should be like. I think I said 'whoa' at one point as we closed up at 6500rpms in second gear WOT on a TVR that had a just started braking heavily to avoid hitting the car in front of him . At this very point, I made another observation. The TWSNBN is a little more stable when coming off the throttle at high revs and speed. I think if I had tried the same maneuvre in the C2 I might have come a lot closer to crashing - hence my 'whoa' comment. I don't know if this has to do with the LSD? 100% lockup during deceleration isn't it? I thought this would mean less skipping around of the rear in such circumstances? Again, only my own uninformed and at this point slightly overwhelmed thoughts.
My overall impression was that this is one fine, very fast car. As it stands now, I don't think it is vastly faster on public roads with equal drivers (obviously sanity has to prevail). I can only imagine what it could to a standard 964 on the track. Beautiful balance/feel and lots of torque. On the looks side, I have always preferred the 964 to the 99ahem. This model though comes closer for me. I still don't like the melted headlights as much as the 964's, but on the whole it looks 'the business'.
Piers, many thanks for your hospitality and the drive. Riccardo and Dave, thanks for providing like-minded company on a hot Sunday which was, as it turned out, screaming out for a cross-country blast in the fine hot weather. I am sure both Ricardo and Dave has some stories from the weekend...
I have taken pictures and these will be posted tomorrow. Needless to say, the John Miles competition will be won hands-down by these babies....
The drive up from M11, Junction 8 services took around 2 hours due to some traffic. With Dave K leading part of the way the pace was brisk to say the least and we managed to overtake in 'three-ship' formation several times as we moved in a vaguely northerly direction. As some will know, we have had a heatwave in the UK and the temp yesterday reached 38.1degC, that's 101Fahrenheit to the traditionalists. I don't have aircon, so the windows were fully down all day, both Dave and Riccardo at several times during the day displayed various degrees of smugness as I went from normal to an alarming red colur depending on the temperature and speed we were going.
Anyway, as some of you might know by now Piers has a new toy. It is Speed Yellow and it is an RS (and it rumbles). It is not a 996 and it is not a 964. There, I have avoided saying 'that-which-shall-not-be-named' but you get the message right? Having arrived at Piers's abode and immediately emptied his fridge of anything liquid it was suggested that Piers take us for a '3-ship' blast around his local countryside, with him leading of course. After we all had drooled about the same amount of liquid we had only moments earlier drunk over the sound of his exhaust, we set off.
My own impressions of 'that-which-shall-not-be-named's (actually, I am tired of typing that so it is from now on going to be TWSNBN) is that it looks great and quite different from the standard model. I am not sure in what way specifically, but it definitely looks like it has a fatter **** than standard. Oh yeah, and it's low - did I also mention the exhaust note?
Piers started off gently with Riccardo in the TWSNBN, I followed him and Dave followed me. With 2 up, the TWSNBN did pull away but not as much as I thought. I think the Varioram generates a lot of torque straightaway but loses some top end (my speculation only), so the result was that Piers pulled away quite nicely but not as much as I thought. We continued this for another half an hour, with TWSNBN flexing its muscles and our 964's keeping up, but only just!
After half an hour, we had lunch at a very charming country-pub which almost coincidentally is literally 20 yards from Piers' house.
After lunch, it got better. I offered my car to Dave K (he has a C4), so that he could compare mine to his whilst I went with Piers in the TWSNBN. My immediate observation was that the suspension is very stiff, but not at all harsh. It felt a lot like my C2, but a little more refined. This was a big surprise as the only other RS I have been in was a 964 which would have been VERY harsh over the roads we were travelling along. You could live with this for a dalily driver IMHO. After a few miles, Piers offered to let me drive his car which I am very grateful for (thanks a million), for a few minutes (he tried not to show it but I think it was all he could take - I have driven alot of LHD's in my time but I don't think it helped). The driveline is very sharp with no 'looseness' - not that 964's have much but this was slightly tighter. The gear change requires less effort but the change is slightly notchier and imprecise (IMHO). The throttle response is very good and I think in a road-going version of this model, the varioram really suits it. You stuff the pedal at 2000+rpms and the car takes off like it has a supercharger.
After biting his nails for a few minutes Piers took over again and we a few miles later showed a TVR Chimaera what a sportscar should be like. I think I said 'whoa' at one point as we closed up at 6500rpms in second gear WOT on a TVR that had a just started braking heavily to avoid hitting the car in front of him . At this very point, I made another observation. The TWSNBN is a little more stable when coming off the throttle at high revs and speed. I think if I had tried the same maneuvre in the C2 I might have come a lot closer to crashing - hence my 'whoa' comment. I don't know if this has to do with the LSD? 100% lockup during deceleration isn't it? I thought this would mean less skipping around of the rear in such circumstances? Again, only my own uninformed and at this point slightly overwhelmed thoughts.
My overall impression was that this is one fine, very fast car. As it stands now, I don't think it is vastly faster on public roads with equal drivers (obviously sanity has to prevail). I can only imagine what it could to a standard 964 on the track. Beautiful balance/feel and lots of torque. On the looks side, I have always preferred the 964 to the 99ahem. This model though comes closer for me. I still don't like the melted headlights as much as the 964's, but on the whole it looks 'the business'.
Piers, many thanks for your hospitality and the drive. Riccardo and Dave, thanks for providing like-minded company on a hot Sunday which was, as it turned out, screaming out for a cross-country blast in the fine hot weather. I am sure both Ricardo and Dave has some stories from the weekend...
I have taken pictures and these will be posted tomorrow. Needless to say, the John Miles competition will be won hands-down by these babies....
08-11-2003, 08:34 AM
#2
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It sounds as though you all had a nice day out. Next time there is a meet around the London area I'll try & come along.
If it makes you feel any better Christer, I've got Air Con - but it's not working! I must get it fixed before next summer - black car with black seats is not a good combination!!
Look forward to seeing the pics.
Andy
If it makes you feel any better Christer, I've got Air Con - but it's not working! I must get it fixed before next summer - black car with black seats is not a good combination!!
Look forward to seeing the pics.
Andy
08-11-2003, 08:36 AM
#3
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Christer,
Thanks for the entertaining write-up.
Of course, your final comment will be proved wrong following the jolly organised for this coming Sunday in Wales.
Thanks for the entertaining write-up.
Of course, your final comment will be proved wrong following the jolly organised for this coming Sunday in Wales.
08-11-2003, 08:39 AM
#4
Well, my comments will be a lot shorter - and a lot less impressive 'cos I didn't get a ride in the RS so most of my comments will be on Christer's C2. But - we'll get to that in a moment.
I feel obligated to defend myself on the brisk pace up the M11. When we left the service station, I said I usually travelled up motorways at X mph and the C2 boys implied that wasn't good enough. So, I relied on my speed camera detector and increased speed to X-plus-a-bit mph just to keep you guys happy..... Admitedly, "plus-a-bit" was quite quick, but obviously still legal......
At least from the outside, Piers car did impress. I do like yellow sports cars and it looked absolutely fabulous. It did sound good - but, I'll comment more on exhaust sounds a bit later.
As Christer said, we set off behind Piers at a fairly brisk pace down some fairly narrow roads. If I'd been trundling down down some of them on my own I think I would have been doing about 40mph, and I would have thought an RS would struggle to keep it's wheels on the ground between the bumps. As it was, we travelled slightly faster than 40mph and Piers was clearly not having a problem with the RS. My car (RUF suspension) also felt pretty good - made it clear it was bumpy and got a bit unsettled once or twice but did impress me a lot. Part way down one of the roads I smiled and thought : this is what makes this car worth the money I spend on it. Fantastic feeling.
After lunch, as Christer said I drove his C2. It's the only other 911 I've ever driven and so obviously the only C2. The first thing I noticed - his seat seems much lower than mine. No idea why that should be? Mine is on it's lowest setting already but Christers was definitely lower - maybe it's an option with the pinstripes.
I did notice that the clutch is a lot lighter than mine, and since his clutch is fairly new it does tie up with what I've been told before - that the clutch gets heavier as it wears. Pulled away and....... Oh my god, that exhaust! I've met Christer a couple of times before (what did I do wrong in a former life.....?) and have always thought it sounded very good from outside the car. But with windows down inside the car - it sounds amazing! Riccardo was in the car with me and we both thought it was superb. You are absolutely forced to rev the engine while you are at idle - and then to rev it as high as possible between gears because it just sounds soooooo good.
Other impression of Christers car - pulled very strongly, nice stable idle and the brakes were very good. My brakes have been bled a million times because of the ABS problems I had last year, and I have steel brake lines. My brakes are now very very good - but it still takes a reasonable amount of pedal travel before they start to bite. Christers bite a lot quicker - as soon as you touch the pedal. It felt very good - I don't believe he actually has anymore braking power but it just felt more impressive. Don't know if the pedal height can be adjusted, or if this is a C2 vs C4 feature?
The one negative point which Christer already mentioned is he doesn't have air con. That's bad enough, but he also neglected to mention that he turns his heater and fan on full when he gets out of the car in hot wheather (leaves the ignition on for a few moments). Riccardo and I discovered this after 5 minutes in his car..............
Final point - I'd actually say Christers car felt pretty settled on those roads, probably slightly more than mine so I'd say his suspension was a good choice. Hate to admit it, but as an overall package that orange C2 is not bad.
Journey back was also entertaining - apart from getting stuck on the M25 for an hour. But then, at least I had air con........
Unfortunately, I think it may have been an expensive day since I will seriously consider a GHL exhaust now. From driving the car there were no obvious problems caused by it - no flat spots, stable idle etc. And it sounds...... - well, it sounds a lot better than Christer! But, I am not going to do it this month since I already have MOT, service and insurance to do this month and adding £2K to that just would not be clever.
Good day - nice to meet Piers, and nice to get a chance to drive once of those strange 2WD 964s.
I feel obligated to defend myself on the brisk pace up the M11. When we left the service station, I said I usually travelled up motorways at X mph and the C2 boys implied that wasn't good enough. So, I relied on my speed camera detector and increased speed to X-plus-a-bit mph just to keep you guys happy..... Admitedly, "plus-a-bit" was quite quick, but obviously still legal......
At least from the outside, Piers car did impress. I do like yellow sports cars and it looked absolutely fabulous. It did sound good - but, I'll comment more on exhaust sounds a bit later.
As Christer said, we set off behind Piers at a fairly brisk pace down some fairly narrow roads. If I'd been trundling down down some of them on my own I think I would have been doing about 40mph, and I would have thought an RS would struggle to keep it's wheels on the ground between the bumps. As it was, we travelled slightly faster than 40mph and Piers was clearly not having a problem with the RS. My car (RUF suspension) also felt pretty good - made it clear it was bumpy and got a bit unsettled once or twice but did impress me a lot. Part way down one of the roads I smiled and thought : this is what makes this car worth the money I spend on it. Fantastic feeling.
After lunch, as Christer said I drove his C2. It's the only other 911 I've ever driven and so obviously the only C2. The first thing I noticed - his seat seems much lower than mine. No idea why that should be? Mine is on it's lowest setting already but Christers was definitely lower - maybe it's an option with the pinstripes.
I did notice that the clutch is a lot lighter than mine, and since his clutch is fairly new it does tie up with what I've been told before - that the clutch gets heavier as it wears. Pulled away and....... Oh my god, that exhaust! I've met Christer a couple of times before (what did I do wrong in a former life.....?) and have always thought it sounded very good from outside the car. But with windows down inside the car - it sounds amazing! Riccardo was in the car with me and we both thought it was superb. You are absolutely forced to rev the engine while you are at idle - and then to rev it as high as possible between gears because it just sounds soooooo good.
Other impression of Christers car - pulled very strongly, nice stable idle and the brakes were very good. My brakes have been bled a million times because of the ABS problems I had last year, and I have steel brake lines. My brakes are now very very good - but it still takes a reasonable amount of pedal travel before they start to bite. Christers bite a lot quicker - as soon as you touch the pedal. It felt very good - I don't believe he actually has anymore braking power but it just felt more impressive. Don't know if the pedal height can be adjusted, or if this is a C2 vs C4 feature?
The one negative point which Christer already mentioned is he doesn't have air con. That's bad enough, but he also neglected to mention that he turns his heater and fan on full when he gets out of the car in hot wheather (leaves the ignition on for a few moments). Riccardo and I discovered this after 5 minutes in his car..............
Final point - I'd actually say Christers car felt pretty settled on those roads, probably slightly more than mine so I'd say his suspension was a good choice. Hate to admit it, but as an overall package that orange C2 is not bad.
Journey back was also entertaining - apart from getting stuck on the M25 for an hour. But then, at least I had air con........
Unfortunately, I think it may have been an expensive day since I will seriously consider a GHL exhaust now. From driving the car there were no obvious problems caused by it - no flat spots, stable idle etc. And it sounds...... - well, it sounds a lot better than Christer! But, I am not going to do it this month since I already have MOT, service and insurance to do this month and adding £2K to that just would not be clever.
Good day - nice to meet Piers, and nice to get a chance to drive once of those strange 2WD 964s.
08-11-2003, 08:50 AM
#5
Three Wheelin'
Great write-up Christer!
It was great cruising in convoy! Comments re. RS V 964 accurate I'd say.....
After the TVR 'incident' JZ have said it will be 3 hours labour to remove the dent in the shape of your right foot from the passenger footwell!
PS You offered me a go in yours....next time.......your exhaust sounded great as you woke the village up when you left in convoy!
PPS We went to watch the 'greasy pole' competition.......very very funny!
Brgds
Piers
993RS!!!
It was great cruising in convoy! Comments re. RS V 964 accurate I'd say.....
After the TVR 'incident' JZ have said it will be 3 hours labour to remove the dent in the shape of your right foot from the passenger footwell!
PS You offered me a go in yours....next time.......your exhaust sounded great as you woke the village up when you left in convoy!
PPS We went to watch the 'greasy pole' competition.......very very funny!
Brgds
Piers
993RS!!!
08-11-2003, 08:53 AM
#6
After the TVR 'incident' JZ have said it will be 3 hours labour to remove the dent in the shape of your right foot from the passenger footwell!
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08-11-2003, 09:17 AM
#8
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Thread Starter
Originally posted by DaveK
Not surprising - us RHD boys get confused when we're passengers in LHD cars!
Not surprising - us RHD boys get confused when we're passengers in LHD cars!
08-11-2003, 09:20 AM
#9
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Hey, looks like I am the last one to chip in on this, busy morning!
First of all, thanks Piers for your hospitality, it was nice meeting you and going for a passenger drive in the 993 (why does Christer have such an issue writing those 3 numbers I don't know). It confirms what I had always thought, that is my favourite 911, possibly ever!
The drive up was indeed 'spirited' what is it about driving in convoy which makes you think the police doesn't exist anymore? I was quite happy being at the tail as I enjoy having a bit more space to see what is happening up front. Favourite bits of the journey for me must have been the overtaking on the A roads. Shame the return leg was a bit more stilted, wonder what it must have been like at 6pm??
Lifts in both Piers and Christer's car were interesting. I do like Christer's exhaust note, but I do wonder if I wouldn''t get a bit fed up with it on longer journeys?
Funny to think the difference in journeys we must have had - Christer had the radio turned up, a LOUD exhaust and probably lots of wind noise with the windows down, whereas I was chiiling with the a/c and a jazz cd; completely different ends of the 964 experience!
One thing though, where you guys downshifting on those overtakes? I wasn't and noticed you would leave me back quite a bit at times!
Am looking forward to the pics tomorrow, and thanks guys for the company, it was a really nice day and wish we could still be out there...
PS: Golf did get cancelled in the end, just as well, I got home and fell asleep for a couple of hours...
First of all, thanks Piers for your hospitality, it was nice meeting you and going for a passenger drive in the 993 (why does Christer have such an issue writing those 3 numbers I don't know). It confirms what I had always thought, that is my favourite 911, possibly ever!
The drive up was indeed 'spirited'
what is it about driving in convoy which makes you think the police doesn't exist anymore? I was quite happy being at the tail as I enjoy having a bit more space to see what is happening up front. Favourite bits of the journey for me must have been the overtaking on the A roads. Shame the return leg was a bit more stilted, wonder what it must have been like at 6pm??Lifts in both Piers and Christer's car were interesting. I do like Christer's exhaust note, but I do wonder if I wouldn''t get a bit fed up with it on longer journeys?
Funny to think the difference in journeys we must have had - Christer had the radio turned up, a LOUD exhaust and probably lots of wind noise with the windows down, whereas I was chiiling with the a/c and a jazz cd; completely different ends of the 964 experience!
One thing though, where you guys downshifting on those overtakes? I wasn't and noticed you would leave me back quite a bit at times!
Am looking forward to the pics tomorrow, and thanks guys for the company, it was a really nice day and wish we could still be out there...
PS: Golf did get cancelled in the end, just as well, I got home and fell asleep for a couple of hours...
08-11-2003, 09:24 AM
#10
One thing though, where you guys downshifting on those overtakes? I wasn't and noticed you would leave me back quite a bit at times!
I only got caught out once when I was at the back of the convoy - it looked like we were stuck for a while and I changed up to 5th - a second later, you and Christer suddenly shot off!
08-11-2003, 09:36 AM
#11
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I should make one point Riccardo, the exhaust is not much louder than stock with the windows closed - we can test that another time. It was WAAAAAY to hot yesterday to have the windows closed.
All the same it was a great day out. As I say, hopefully pics tomorrow.
All the same it was a great day out. As I say, hopefully pics tomorrow.
08-11-2003, 03:21 PM
#12
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All this talk about 'three ship formation' overtaking is getting me worried for Sunday. Mr Boggiano, will we be doing this too?????
Dave
'90 C2
Dave
'90 C2
08-11-2003, 04:47 PM
#13
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Originally posted by Wikkid911
All this talk about 'three ship formation' overtaking is getting me worried for Sunday. Mr Boggiano, will we be doing this too?????
Dave
'90 C2
All this talk about 'three ship formation' overtaking is getting me worried for Sunday. Mr Boggiano, will we be doing this too?????
Dave
'90 C2