Rocket Rob

I'm a lucky person who does not have squeal. I had loud squeal when I bought my car 10 years ago. I've switched to Ferodo street pads. My secret is to coat the back of the pads with Permetex Anti-squeal spray. I normally put on 2-3 coats before installing. I do not use the factory anti-squeal buttons.

See http://www.permatex.com/products/pro...&item_no=80077

Has anyone else tried this stuff? I've used it for 15 years and am still on my original can. It lasts a long time.

Dave Cat

Robmug,

I had the same done to my front discs although I am in Australia. Machined front discs by lathe while discs still on the car. No grooves or rings after machining. 100% flat!

My brakes squeaked badly up until then, it was generally as I came to creep at the lights and tried to be soft on the brake. I tried to ignore the problem by using engine braking, but I finally had enough. I tried chamfering them to no avail. The discs were grooved and had a noticeable lip at the end. This caused the pads wear unevenly and hence the squeak when the uneven pads met the grooved discs.

Finally had the discs machined and bought new OEM pads, problem solved.

Still hate the brake dust build up on my Cups. I am forever cleaning the dust of them.

Dave

Silver 90 C4

johnfm

Dave (or WIkkid)

Engines are to make cars go. Brakes are to make cars stop.

Engine braking is a bad habit to get into.

Christer

Horsesh*t. We all use it. What do you do if you are 150 yards from a roundabout at the top of 3rd gear foot to the metal and you obviously want to slow down to avoid scalping the roundabout? In this instance I wouldn't dip my clutch to avoid engine braking, that's for sure.

Why is it a bad habit?

robmug

Christer, that's not what John meant - I think he's referring to what my girlfriend does! - she approaches a stop and changes down through the gears to slow down; feels to me like the downshift equivalent of slipping the clutch.

Remaining in gear and braking seems fine to me.

John Boggiano

Because, for maximal braking effort, the load should be spread across all four tyres, not just two.

But I still like doing it!

Besides, we're not generally after the absolute maximum.

Except when you're out with Piers, obviously.

johnfm

Next time you get the red rocket on the track and are at 10/10 approaching a corner try engine braking and report the result back..

In a nutshell, IF you are near the edge of grip, engine braking will unsettle the car and, unlike the more subtle control of your brakes, will cause the rear to lose traction, which I doubt is a good thing.

Your example, BTW, is not what I describe as engine braking. I refer to downshifting & not matching engine revs before engaging the clutch.

Christer

Engine braking does not unsettle the car. A change in the forces applied to the car causes this.

Re your comment on the track. How do you do it?. Usually I may be coming up to a corner in 4th gear, brake hard then revmatch (as well as possible) and select (guess) the correct gear for exiting corner and then turn in. However, I find it necessary to change into the gear in which you are going to apply power before you turn in if you are at the limit (or you can unsettle the car), hence effectively engine braking.

I would be interested in knowing how you do it? Do you coast into the corner in neutral and then engage the gear mid corner or apex or wherever when you need to apply power to exit?

Christer

p.s. engine braking is whenever you are decelerating whilst the gears are engaged. Not just at traffic lights when your girlfriend is driving.

Dave Cat

Dear Johnfm,

Sorry to cause such a stir on the board regarding engine braking. I must confess to some engine braking at times, although lately when coming to a slow stop at lights I tend to coast with the clutch depressed.

However, when the time comes to drive fast a bit of engine brake by dropping gears before a corner along with rev matching as well as a tap on the brake is the way to go.

Dave Cat (NOT WIKKID)

1990 C4

John Boggiano

A stir is a good thing! Wakes us all up!

The difference about the 964 board is that we can all have an interesting disagreement without involving threats and lawyers!

John Boggiano

FWIW, if I'm approaching a corner fast, epsecially on the track, I ease onto the brakes, heel & toe, downshift by double-declutching, maybe go down a further gear (or two) the same way, ease off the brakes and then accelerate out.

I've been doing it this way for so long that I have enormous trouble doing it any other way. I don't think most people bother with double-declutching but if I try to leave it out it all goes pear-shaped!

Besdies, I get a lot of pleasure from having so much 'going on' in extremis.

joey bagadonuts

I think the common understanding of engine braking is to use the engine to slow the car--no brakes. Yes, people actually do this.

John B, the drill Christer and you described is simply proper, high-speed downshifting. Yes, there's a bit of engine braking involved as you dump the clutch (prior to the apex) but I believe your right foot is firmly on the brake pedal as you do this. Right? So that's the difference.

Just my 0.02.

maverick

I agree with an earlier comment, brakes are cheaper and easier to replace than clutches!
With regard to brake dust, I put a set of ceramic pads on my wifes Lincoln Navigator (SUV) and it has totally eliminated brake dust on the rims. My local tire store recommended them so I gave them a go. Sorry I don't know the brand but the difference was dramatic. The SUV weighs 5300# plus so even with lots of braking around town still no dust.
Maverick