danielheren

The Porsche dealership replaced all of my 91 C2 cylinders with the updated version. They also replaced all head studs. The heads were "sent" out and re-machined, etc.

Along the way, any and all applicable o-rings, gaskets, and oil seals were replaced. Too many other things were replaced or repaired to mention.

Now, the first day I arrived home in my Porsche, I noticed that oil was pouring out from the oil filler cap. I tightened it and it still leaked. The dealer checked the oil pressure and said it was OK, then they replaced the oil cap. It stopped the leak (it never leaked from the cap previously). The car was not overfilled with oil.

Now, it makes some strong gurgling sounds when the cap is off for adding oil. and if I open the cap while it is hot, it will overflow through the filler neck.

Since the new cap has been installed, the valve covers were noticed to be leaking. The car has been back at the shop on at least 4 separate occasions to have a new valve cover gasket put on because of persistant leaks. They finally resorted to replacing the valve covers with new ones, and discovered another oil leak from the bell housing? Back for another trip to the shop, with the engine out this time. I will know tomorrow if the new valve covers did the trick or not.

Is there ANY way that something could be causing the oil pressure to back up in a limited area of the engine, thus causing the leaks to persist, but not make the engine run hot or otherwise abnormal?

HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLP!

Adrian

Yes there are many things. They have to check that they have not blanked off the crankcase vent system. I have seen this once when a rag which was used to blank the system off whilst the engine was out was left inside the pipe when it was connected up. They also have to check that the oil is being scavenged out of the engine back to the oil tank. Sounds to me that they have made an internal boo boo.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

danielheren

so,

It's back at the dealer for the same persistent oil leak. They dropped the engine and changed a seal around the "bell tower..."?? something like that. Re-installed the eng, tested it and told me that "it was still leaking around the same area." (above the chain tensioners, i believe). They were going to ask some porshce guru for any other reason that it might still be leaking.
By the way, they found a rocker arm shaft that had moved out of place. They charged me to fix it. Shouldn't this be included in all the money I paid to have the heads serviced, rebuilt, and all checked out less than a year ago?
God only know what they will come up with next. I'm almost at the end of my patience with this dealer, and this car.

Sorry, I had to get it all out.

Thanks

springer3

Your experience is common when taking an older car to the dealer. The most experienced mechanics work on the new cars, because they made the big bucks on the sale. Take in a 12 year old car, and you pay to train the apprentice.

Do you get to talk to your mechanic? The Atlanta dealership has you talk to a "service writer" whose job it is to make sure you don't get to talk directly to anyone that knows what is going on. If you meet the guy that did the work, and he is conscientious, you will probably be able to work things out. The one time I was in a similar situation, the story I got was "we fired the guy he was so bad, now let us charge you again to fix the problems". You may get the same story if you ask for a face to face with the person responsible.

For an older car, I believe you will get better service at an independent shop that was started by mechanics that left the dealership. These guys are experienced, but are typically out of date on the newest cars. They make a living working on cars that were new when they were at the dealership. There are still incompetents and crooks at the independents, but the good ones get a good reputation. Ask around, and be willing to pay a fair price for someone that does the work correctly the first time. It is far less expensive in the long run.

I would refuse to pay for rework to fix oil leaks after a complete rebuild. The engines are hand-built at the factory, using essentially the same parts provided for repairs. New engines don't leak, and neither should a rebuild. I am not a professional mechanic, but I have DIY-rebuilt two 911 flat sixes. All stayed bone dry for years after the rebuild. It is simply a matter of taking the care to clean everything, follow all instructions in the factory manual (including the approved sealants), and assembling with extreme care. It takes a lot of time, but that is far bettter than doing it twice (or more).

I had a strong gurgleing sound after my first oil change on my 964, but that turned out to be overfilling. Adrian agrees with the theory that the mechanic left something behind or failed to connect something properly.

Good luck. I would be making noises about going to the better business bureau if the shop does not change its tune, and put their best person on your case.

danielheren

Thankyou.

You have some very solid advice. Today, the dealer told me that they found that the leak seems to originate from where the rocker shaft comes thorugh the case. They said that the rocker housing case thing is apparently worn and would need to be replaced at a cost of over $6,000. I can't believe it!
I'm so mad can't see straight. Sounds like I'm really screwed now. How can I prove otherwise? FYI: they previously performed a cylinder update/change out (so, top end rebuild only).

Thanks for your input.

Adrian

Dear Daneil,
Me thinks it is time to report the dealer to Atlanta. Do it nicely but I sincerely believe you need some help on this one. I am impressed by your posts because I am sure I would be bouncing off the walls by now. This is something that nobody should have to put up with.
I do not believe their story and I am sure any sensible person would not believe them either.
You may have to get a second opinion. I would suggest you ask the PCNA to send an inspector out to see you and the 964.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

PS: Do not mess around with the minions either. In these situations you must go straight to the top. Top of the dealership and the top in the PCNA.

mwildt

Hi,

If I were you I'd ask Steve Weiner for advice. He has a P shop in Portland and is extremely knowledgeable and posts frequently here on rennlist and it's web/mail forums. If you describe you observations to him I'm sure he can tell you what to ask for and what to check. Knowing more is always better, before going back to the dealer. Having you go crazy is not fair to you or the car.

http://www.rennsportsystems.com

MIchael

David K.

It sound like you have a leak in the camshaft housing where the rocker arm shaft pass thru. This happens some times after the camshaft housing are disassemble for rebuild after around the 3rd rebuild. We installed racing rocker shaft seals p/n 91109910352 in my motor.

danielheren

Thanks for the advice David. You may help me keep my sanity.

danielheren

So, I contacted PCNA as suggested. They must have contacted the dealer, because they called me with three choices. I chose the "at no cost to me" choice, which involves the dealer installing racing shaft seals. One of the options was a remanufatured engine at cost and no labor charge.

Out of curiosity I asked how much the engine would be. $8900. With this knowledge I called PCNA back and told them that I feel that I was misled in the very begining with a low-ball $4-7K original estimate, which turned into a $12,000 estimate as soon as the engine was dropped and "inspected". Never was a remanufactured engine offered as a choice.
I advised PCNA that if the dealer is unable to stop the oil leak after this shaft seal install, that I would not be happy unless a remanufactured engnie is installed in my car at NO FURTHER expense to me! Which should have been the dealers advice almost a year ago.
The service mgr. hinted at blaming the leak on the case, if the seals don't fix it.
What a croc.

dove

Hi Daniel, I hate to hear this,you take your pride and joy to an OPC and still have big problems I have heard this so many times.My advice is find a great specialist once the OPC have fixed your car,many specialists are Porsche fans and will treat your car with the respect it deserves.I once took my Mercedes to a main dealer for a full service,2 days after recieving the car back the water pump bearing broke in the middle of nowhere,I contacted the dealer who told me a young trainee had worked on the car and they are very sorry cos he should have checked this,they went pretty quiet when I asked if the trainees worked had been checked!!
As for a new engine I saw a great deal in the british exchange and mart last week from a Porsche breaker,it was a 964 engine guaranteed and fitted for £2,500 plus vat.Is that a deal.
Happy xmas everyone.
Paul
C2 cab