Need a little experience on this one. Got my alternator rebuilt using high quality parts, but the local rebuilder painted the clamshells and made it look all nicey nicey. Didn't think much about it's effect. Put everything back together and started the engine and it spurtered and popped and died. Finally realized the painted surface was making the belts slip. sanded off all the paint and belts got their normal traction...HOWEVER, now it seems like when I turn the crankshaft that it binds up or gets hard to turn over through some of the cylinders...its like it alternates between easy to turn and then much resistence. Is this normal or could I have encountered some form of engine damage (bent valves?) during this process? Dizzy is confirmed hooked up properly and still the engine cranks but it won't catch and fire up. Dead in the water here.

 

What you explain is quite normal. You are cranking the engine over and encountering "Compression" in each cylinder as it reaches TDC.

As to the alternator, a few Q's:

Who put the alternator back in? = 3 wires PROPERLY hooked up?

How long was the alternator out (how long since the car was started) = weak battery would prevent engine from firing

When you state clamshell, are they the pulleys? When you sanded off the paint, did you readjust the belts to the proper tension?

 

Thanks for the feedback lou. So, first I re installed the alternator and yes the 3 wires were hooked back up as they should be. Weak battery situation is this. I installed a brand new battery with the alternator for the first start try. So something must have been not properly lined up. I'm assuming the dizzy and crank were not sync'd like they should have been. Even after I tore everything out and verified TDC with dizzy and correct plug wire location and hooked up my other car to recharge the new battery it still gave a no start condition. Engine would crank over a few times and then slow down and stop as the battery lost "umphf" is how I can describe it. THe more I think about it I find it hard to believe I tweak internals from a slipped belt Maybe I'll test the battery again but I don't think a weak battery would have caused the initial popping sound. How about the belt tensioner sensor? Can that cause a no start? Because I definitely bruised that thing up during the alternator removal.

 

Did you install the spacer (#16 on 105-00) on the alternator shaft? That can cause the alternator to bind. How do I know? I realized that I had done that yesterday when I was trying to start my newly rebuilt motor. After troubleshooting, we realized that there was a spacer on the parts table. Doh! Installed it and the engine turned over normally.

 

I'd love that to be the case, but I've removed the alternator completely and even when cranking the engine with just the dizzy it won't fire up. It cranks with the starter and turns until it feels like it hits a wall then stops abruptly and then slowly starts to turn again. This happens in a cycle when key is turned to full start position. It cycles and gets weaker and weaker it seems. I've verified the battery again and it's fine. Something feels like it is physically wrong.

 

what is the best way to test if the coils are getting spark sans a special tester?

 

Let's start with the basics,

1) Can you rotate the engine manually with a wrench? Does it hang up anywhere or is it smooth all the way around?
2) What is your battery voltage? It is 12.5v? If not, perhaps you need a new battery.
3) Can you jump the battery with another car and try cranking it?
4) Has anything else changed recently besides the alternator?

 

Rob,

1. Yes I can rotate the engine manually.

2. Voltage is good - brand new battery and confirmed at store after recharge

3. That was the first thing I tried..to jump via another car, still no improvement. Same crank, turn, stop, slow crank turn stop cycle.

4. Nothing else changed.

All I can think is that I mangled some wires during removal so that is why I wanted to check to see if it's even getting a spark. Will swamp DME's for giggles too i suppose and start there.

 

Is it worth removing your starter and having it tested? Perhaps the failure is a coincidence.

Another thought, to remove the ignition system from the equation, pull the DME relay and then crank it. If it cranks normally, then you have a problem with your ignition, possibly a crossed spark lead. Could you have a broken distributor belt? Can you rotate the secondary rotor?

 

Check your starter ground early on.

 

"Put everything back together and started the engine and it spurtered and popped and died."
Did you have the distributor out ?
What is it that happened to make the engine "spurtered and popped and died" ?

"Finally realized the painted surface was making the belts slip. sanded off all the paint and belts got their normal traction..."
Paint on the pulley isn't a problem .

"HOWEVER, now it seems like when I turn the crankshaft that it binds up or gets hard to turn over through some of the cylinders...its like it alternates between easy to turn and then much resistence."
Is this with the plugs out or in ?

 

Rob, I'll remove the relay and check that. Changing the DME relays out (i have 3 of them) had no effect thou. The starter seems to turn over the engine fine. I've had failing starters before and this one has plenty of push behind it...until the engine seems to hit a wall and stops abruptly..then overcomes the resistence and cranks again, then hits resistance..etc. thats the cycle. I suppose checking the straps is worth the effort just generally speaking.

Indy cam what happened was after I had everything reassembled and cranked the engine it sputtered popped and died. I thought maybe I had messed up the timing so I pulled the dizzy and moved everything to TDC. The second crank I forgot to fasten the nut on the dizzy, but at that point the engine already was in a state that it currently is in. So wasn't sure if maybe somehow a washer fell into the dizzy hole during removal or I fried the dme with crossed wires from the alternator( Although I'm almost 100%_ sure I had them exactly as it was prior to removal). And yes, I realized a bit later that the painted surfaces would have had no effect on the issue at hand.

Plugs are all in. My next major step if the electricals and fuel turn out fine is to take the valve covers off and pull the lower plugs and see if the binding is still present...would that be logical? I mean wouldn't that tell me the binding is not due to compression?

 

If all you did is remove the distributor and Alternator, and then put them back, there can't be any internal damage to the engine. Especially since it barely turned over, so you can relax.

Are you sure you put the engine at TDC? Meaning- since the Distributor was out, did you make sure the #1 cyl was at TDC with a long screw driver in the spark plug hole (seeing the piston push it up) or remove the valve cover to see that the #1 intake or exhaust valve was up and the tappet was loose (feeler gauge). And that Z1 was on the timing mark and the distributors rotors were pointing at the #1 mark on the distributor housing when inserted, and also that the distributor is pushed in flush with the nice "click?" Only then is it properly at TDC Cyl #1 (left side) instead of #4 (the right side)

The alternator is very hard to wire incorrectly, but it is possible to mix up the two small wires. Yes you could have damaged the electrical system, but more than likely, if the distributor is in correctly, the alternator is connected correctly, and the battery is good, it should start since you really didn't mess with anything else. Also the belt warning sensor is not a factor in the engine starting.

-Keith

 

much apprecated info thank you Olcha(and everyone). So to answer your question the only verfication of aligning things to tdc with the dizzy was to turn the crank to the notch along with the z1 mark with the dizzy caps off ensuring both were pointed to the #1 plug. I did not remove valve covers. if nothing internally changed I can't imagine that would be necessary? And the dizzy is pushed in as far as it can go and teeth of gear have no scoring or damage apparent.

 

There are more than one top dead centers where the
"crank to the notch along with the z1 mark" .
Did you check that the tdc was the one between the compression and fire stroke ?

If you have the tdc between the exhaust stroke and the intake stroke lined up at the
"crank to the notch along with the z1 mark"
then your spark is going in at a very wrong time .


"Indy cam what happened was after I had everything reassembled and cranked the engine it sputtered popped and died."
What I was trying to ask was ,
did you have the distributor out before all this **** started happening ?
If you did have it out , why did you have it out ?

I'd pull a set of plugs first and then rotate the engine to see if it is spinning freely .
Long long ago my brother bought a 356 motor , it had just been rebuilt , when we put it on our bench and tried to spin it by hand one valve hit one piston , it would rotate freely until the contact , then the was a little feeling of drag , then it rotated freely again .
When you have a set of plugs out and it rotates ok , then maybe do a compression or leak down .