Tiptronic Fluid Levels - My Observations
10-15-2012, 04:18 PM
#1
Tiptronic Fluid Levels - My Observations
I recently changed the fluid and filter in my Tip unit and have been trying to get the level right since then and think I finally have it right. Of course the proper technique involves the confirmation of the fluid temperature using the Hammer or equivalent scanner but seeing as how I don't have access to one of them I have been doing my best without it.
When I first filled it I did as one post here suggests, added enough fluid that while the engine was running, tranny in Park and the fluid was cold that it was around the "Min" level at the 30*C lines on the gauge - that took about 3 quarts which is what the books says it should take as a drain and refill amount. I then drove the car around for about 30 minutes and rechecked it and it was low but the pan wasn't anywhere near 80*C required for the "final check" so I used an IR thermometer and found the pan to be at about 55*C and so I filled the fluid to about halfway between the "Max" mark for 30*C and the "Min" mark for 80*C.
After driving it for a bit again I then checked it and it was still low, though warmer than before so I filled it to halfway between the "Min" and "Max" marks for 80*C, figuring it probably still wasn't at 80*C but close. At various times over the past couple of weeks I would look at the gauge after driving and it never got up above the 80*C "Min" line but the weather had been pretty cool and I hadn't been really driving the car hard so I have attributed it to the fluid temperature being cooler than 80*C.
It takes a LONG time to warm up 9 quarts of tranny fluid in this thing - keep in mind the fluid is used to cool and lubricate the TC and transmission, not the engine and it takes a good 20 minutes to warm the engine oil up too so it could easily take up to an hour to warm the transmission fluid up and I could see it never getting fully warm if the weather were very cold.
I think 80*C is a "magic number" because the system apparently has a thermostatically controlled aux. cooling fan which pulls air through the ATF cooler and probably is set to keep it no higher than 80*C but since the fluid seems to constantly circulate through the cooler it is likely that the fluid temperature most of the time is actually lower than 80*C, especially in cooler weather.
Well today the weather was unseasonably warm, in the low 70's F and I drove the car for about 45 minutes, mostly on back roads and some stop and go. When I checked the fluid it was at the 80*C "Min" mark. I decided to try a little experiment and drove the next 15 minutes pretty aggressively using the Tip in manual mode. Getting some decent revs going, much more so than in normal "D" mode and letting it hang in 3rd gear rather than upshifting into 4th while cruising at 40 MPH or so and also using the Tip to downshift for engine braking. I then checked the level again and low and behold it was right at the "Max" line for 80*C. I have concluded from this that the only way to get the fluid temperature up to even near the design temp is to drive the car pretty aggressively, especially in cool weather, otherwise the fluid will probably not reach near 80*C and you are probably overfilling it if you set it to "max" when it is not really hot. I know others have reported putting 5, 6, and even 7 or more quarts of fluid into the Tip after draining the oil out. In my case I used under 4 quarts (probably about 3.6-3.7) to get to the level I feel is "correct" after I drained it and changed the filter.
You can actually see the gauge with a flashlight from in front of the right rear wheel well area if you know where to look for it, so checking it periodically isn't too hard. I marked the 80*C "Max" line on mine with a black sharpie so it could easily be seen from the wheel well and used that as the reference since I cannot read the whole scale from the wheel well. As I said, today, after driving it hard in moderately warm weather was the first time I had seen the level at that line. I wish I could confirm the actual temperature using a Hammer but this is the best I can do and will assume I hit the 80*C number. Next summer, when it is hot out I will check it again...I would bet then it will run closer to the Max line most of the time in hot weather.
I still have a spare OE Porsche brand filter if anyone needs one. It should fit the 964 and 993 Tip units. After seeing how clean my pan was during this service I see no reason to ever drop it again, all I will do from now on is periodically drain the fluid and replace what I drain out to keep it fresh.
I will say the final drive oil was pretty nasty so I am glad I replaced that. My car has 44K miles on it and I don't think either the Tip or the final drive was ever touched.
I hope this helps others who struggle with the fluid level issue.
When I first filled it I did as one post here suggests, added enough fluid that while the engine was running, tranny in Park and the fluid was cold that it was around the "Min" level at the 30*C lines on the gauge - that took about 3 quarts which is what the books says it should take as a drain and refill amount. I then drove the car around for about 30 minutes and rechecked it and it was low but the pan wasn't anywhere near 80*C required for the "final check" so I used an IR thermometer and found the pan to be at about 55*C and so I filled the fluid to about halfway between the "Max" mark for 30*C and the "Min" mark for 80*C.
After driving it for a bit again I then checked it and it was still low, though warmer than before so I filled it to halfway between the "Min" and "Max" marks for 80*C, figuring it probably still wasn't at 80*C but close. At various times over the past couple of weeks I would look at the gauge after driving and it never got up above the 80*C "Min" line but the weather had been pretty cool and I hadn't been really driving the car hard so I have attributed it to the fluid temperature being cooler than 80*C.
It takes a LONG time to warm up 9 quarts of tranny fluid in this thing - keep in mind the fluid is used to cool and lubricate the TC and transmission, not the engine and it takes a good 20 minutes to warm the engine oil up too so it could easily take up to an hour to warm the transmission fluid up and I could see it never getting fully warm if the weather were very cold.
I think 80*C is a "magic number" because the system apparently has a thermostatically controlled aux. cooling fan which pulls air through the ATF cooler and probably is set to keep it no higher than 80*C but since the fluid seems to constantly circulate through the cooler it is likely that the fluid temperature most of the time is actually lower than 80*C, especially in cooler weather.
Well today the weather was unseasonably warm, in the low 70's F and I drove the car for about 45 minutes, mostly on back roads and some stop and go. When I checked the fluid it was at the 80*C "Min" mark. I decided to try a little experiment and drove the next 15 minutes pretty aggressively using the Tip in manual mode. Getting some decent revs going, much more so than in normal "D" mode and letting it hang in 3rd gear rather than upshifting into 4th while cruising at 40 MPH or so and also using the Tip to downshift for engine braking. I then checked the level again and low and behold it was right at the "Max" line for 80*C. I have concluded from this that the only way to get the fluid temperature up to even near the design temp is to drive the car pretty aggressively, especially in cool weather, otherwise the fluid will probably not reach near 80*C and you are probably overfilling it if you set it to "max" when it is not really hot. I know others have reported putting 5, 6, and even 7 or more quarts of fluid into the Tip after draining the oil out. In my case I used under 4 quarts (probably about 3.6-3.7) to get to the level I feel is "correct" after I drained it and changed the filter.
You can actually see the gauge with a flashlight from in front of the right rear wheel well area if you know where to look for it, so checking it periodically isn't too hard. I marked the 80*C "Max" line on mine with a black sharpie so it could easily be seen from the wheel well and used that as the reference since I cannot read the whole scale from the wheel well. As I said, today, after driving it hard in moderately warm weather was the first time I had seen the level at that line. I wish I could confirm the actual temperature using a Hammer but this is the best I can do and will assume I hit the 80*C number. Next summer, when it is hot out I will check it again...I would bet then it will run closer to the Max line most of the time in hot weather.
I still have a spare OE Porsche brand filter if anyone needs one. It should fit the 964 and 993 Tip units. After seeing how clean my pan was during this service I see no reason to ever drop it again, all I will do from now on is periodically drain the fluid and replace what I drain out to keep it fresh.
I will say the final drive oil was pretty nasty so I am glad I replaced that. My car has 44K miles on it and I don't think either the Tip or the final drive was ever touched.
I hope this helps others who struggle with the fluid level issue.
