race911

If we're doing the women-and-964 thing. (Wife's interest in track events faded before we got any 993s. She likes them, too.)

ACSGP

The 993 lost the lovely smile and eyes

ras62

993 cam timing? mmm not very clever compared to the 964...cost cutting again.

Bill Verburg

It's amazing what rickety pegs some are hanging their hats on

f3nr15

There's not enough in it objectively to say that one is greatly superior than the other;

The 993 was simply a further refinement of the 964, that is all.

Hence, it always comes down to subjective measures - aesthetics, feel, butt dyno etc.

I'm one of the small but increasing number of folk who chose a 964 when a 993 was well within my means.

Again, for subjective reasons - there wasn't enough difference in the driving to warrant one over the other, but when I looked out the windscreen, the 993 didn't "feel" like a 911 - no familiar torpedo tubes

14 months after purchasing, the car still makes me feel like a kid with an ice-cream cone every time I drive it

berni29

Hi There

I have had a 964 and now have a 993. The thing I really miss about my 964 is the view of the torpedo tubes while driving. I do think the 993 is prettier from the outside though. The 993's rear suspension is far superior (IMHO) and for that reason alone I would not go back. The interior build quality is simlar on both and I think time is proving that the 993's rust less. Also not having to ajdust the valves is nice. I take the point about the superior sproket and cam set up on the 964, but my 993 is an early one with the same arrangement so did not affect me. Also the 993 is more refined which is why I fitted RS spec bushes all round to mine and solid steering arms along with a few other mods. Just to get some of that 964 rawness (which I loved) back.

Berni

Goughary

FWIW - my opinion - start with which one looks better (to you), then figure out if you want less headache or you dont mind turning a wrench and doing so work - the 993 should be less headache..."should" - and then when you start to lean in one direction or the other - look for a good car in the right price range...

once you pull the trigger, there is little to zero doubt you will be happy. It's a 911. all smiles...

(but one more thing - if you intend to drive in the snow, there is nothing better than a 964 C4, just sayin...)

axl911

Having owned both and drive them daily:

- look is a subjective thing. I like the traditional front end of a 964. The back of the 993 is perfection.

- power is much better on the 993 especially with the vram intake. much more torque available at lower rpm which makes every day driving a pleasure.

- can't really tell the ride difference between the 993 and 964. By now, most of the car original suspension is worn and everyone replaced them with an aftermarket so it varies.

- maintenance is where the 993 wins. sure the oil change is a pain with the 2 filters, but you don't have to adjust the valves. Have you ever attempted to adjust the valve of a 964? It either cost you a whole weekend or $500.

- reliability is where the 964 edges over the 993 a little since the 993 does have the 96+ SAI problem. both cars seemed to suffer from the dreaded worn valve guide problem.

MJBird993

Well, I'll throw in my two cents worth. I've owned both, and a 996. I wish I still had the 964. It's got those great air-cooled sounds that were diminished in the 993 and gone in the 996. In the 964 you can hear the oil gurgling through the lines (at least you could on mine). I always thought that was so neat. That sound was gone in the 993. Oil changes are a little easier on the 964. Everything else - looks, handling, those are personal preferences.

race911

Retail shop rates notwithstanding, it's an honest 2.5 hours if you don't have an exhaust with rust/corrosion issues on the fasteners.

Even though I was out of the business by the time 964s had many miles on them, I've still probably done 30 separate cars with maybe 60-70 total adjustments.

FeralComprehension

I dunno if I can get it done in that amount of time, but for sure a 964 valve adjustment doesn't take all weekend!

ETA: No way in hell would I pay Franz and/or Udo $1300 for a valve adjustment.

creaturecat

honest 2.5/dishonest 8.0?
the porsche shops here charge for 8 hours, for a 964 valve adjustment
8 x 110 = 880
filter/gaskets 100
oil + changing 200
total 1180 + tax
approx 1350 - certainly not chump change.

This is a long way from 500, am i missing something (other than an extra 800 out of the wallet) ?

goofballdeluxe

I'd say what you're missing is, shops (even honest ones) often charge the book rate of, say, 8 hours, even though they can easily do it in much less time.

Ken is right that a shop can do it in much less than 8 hours, probably half that. Ken would be mistaken, however, if he thinks most shops will pass the labor time savings on to the customer.

As for the 964 vs. 993 debate, both are great, both have different ups and downs, and one should buy either based on personal preference. Buy the best car you can afford, regardless of whether it's a 964 or a 993, and you'll be a happy man

creaturecat

flat rate = hurry up and finish, easy money ahead.
Last time I had mechanic's wire holding my plug wires in place, when they were done.
They compensated, however, by giving me 2 extra litres of oil.
In the engine. : (

Bud Taylor

Yea mere mortals pay 1500 to 2400 for valve adjustment. 964 may BR worth more in 20 years with bug eyed wink. After many years of being a second owner "close to garage queen" I would say 964 is buy and hold 993 may be more buy and drive so higher milage not as important. 964 I would target would be 93 or 94 993 96 +