sgtpeper

Hi all,

I currently have a 2011 STi Limited and a '74 Alfa Spider. I'm thinking of selling both and buying a 964 cab and a 4Runner for winter duty. I'm just sick of most modern cars and their completely computerized driving experience. I just love the classic look of the 964. So I have a bunch of newb questions.

1. How reliable is the 964?
2. What is the best year of the 964?
3. What should I look for when buying a 964?
4. What are must options?
5. Am I crazy?
6. What are some good shops in the Denver area for repairs?
7. What else should I know before going down this road?

Thanks for the help and advice!

Goughary

Call someone who owns a 964 and has gone through the ringer with it...first piece of advice.
Second, do not buy the first one you see.
Third - make sure you Spend the money to get a proper ppi done before buying. Spend thousands on ppi's if you have to - but make sure that each car you are interested in has a ppi done, by you, with an independant shop. No ppi, no buy, unless you are buying a 10k dollar and are interested in a project.

I didnt do the ppi route - and I am very happy, but I has a very expensive, quasi brand new 964. much of the expense couldd have been easily avoided with a little patience and a little dependance on some expertise that i didnt have then...

Everyone says from build date nov 1, 1990 onward are the best. This is true to some degree only because there were factory fixes in the 91 model year which began nov 1, 1990 on the assembly line. However, this was WAY more true 10-15 years ago. Most of the well running and well maintained cars you will find, will have had much of these upgrades and changes done. Look up the necessary modifications and changes, and look for these in the paperwork on the cars you look at.

Buy Adrian Steathers book. And then look up the TSB's for the 964. Read them all and become familiar with all the little things that we have had to do along the way - you will also see many threads here for maintenance and upgrades/modifications...Sounds like alot of work, but becomming very familiar with these 911's particularly will result in HUGE savings...since you are lokely to spend more and buy a nicer car, and have way less hassle, expense, worry and frustration along the way...

And yes - you are crazy. but so are we....could have bought a miata, and had as much fun, spending way less....but then, I never dreamed of owning a miata...

August West

So the STi doesn't get your adrenaline going??? I know they're soulless, but still...a fairly decent ricer?

Love my 1990 964, didn't do PPI since it was given to me by my father and as they say, you don't look a gift-horse in the mouth.

Wanted to fix the oil leak and ended up with serious WYIT disease to the tune of 20k plus, which didn't hurt as much since the car was free. Now I feel like the car will be good for another 20 years and I get to thank my father every time I go for a drive!

Oh, and you'll be hard pressed to find anything that sounds so glorious when you open up the taps!

Good luck with your search!

sgtpeper

Thanks for the responses so far.

I do love my - hell its my 3rd one as I had an 05, 08 and now the '11. I think it has soul, not as much as my Alfa, but it has soul.

Where can I read about the usual things to go wrong with this car?

How many of you really drive your 964s daily? Is there another generation of 911 that's known to be more reliable as a semi-daily driver?

Thanks,

doubleurx

I used to drive my 964 daily. I will never sell it. It has been extremely reliable for me in the 12 years I have owned it. It finally started leaking too much oil, so it went in for a re-seal. Well, $13,500 later from classic WYIT disease, it is coming back home next week with a fresh 3,8L re-build and newly machined heads, new clutch disk and the associated re-seal/re-build parts. They gave me a great deal on the piston cylinder kit which is why it is relatively inexpensive for the amount of work. I absolutely love the car and will keep it forever.

As for more reliable 911's, that would probably lead you to the water cooled 996's, specifically the turbos as they have the stronger bottom end. I have a 2003 996TT that is my daily driver and I love it.

BTW I also used to have a 400whp STI - 2005. I do miss that car very much. It was modded like crazy - tein coilovers, 29mm FSB, FMIC, GT30 turbo, 816cc injectors etc. I should have never sold that car!

sgtpeper

Hah yea I miss my 05 STi the most too. It was Stage 2 and a blast to drive.

I used to want a 996 (actually almost bought one instead of my STi in 2005), but the RMS problem has always made me nervous.

What is WYIT disease for the 964?

Thanks,

doubleurx

The RMS issues don't plague the Turbo, only the NA 996's.

"While You're In There"

Paulie964

The WYIT with these cars can quickly spiral out of control. Worse case scenario, you will find yourself rebuilding the motor. I'm not trying to scare you off, but this can run you right around 10k because there is a lot you can do, well, while you are in there.

I was actually looking into buying a 2005 sti, and believe me, building power and fixing things is MUCH cheaper than a 964. I have repeatedly read here that these cars are 25k cars one way or another. So if you find something in the 14k range, you might do the rebuild and be right up there around the 25k range. Go to pelicanparts.com and look around at prices of parts just to get an idea. Oil changes will be much more considering you have to buy 10 quarts instead of the usual average of 4-5. ... etc ...

The cars are definitely reliable, 100k on the motor is nothing. You will hear this over and over again on this site, GET A PPI (private party inspection). Spend the $300-$400, it will save you a world of headaches. Scroll through a few pages and see what people are doing and dealing with, that will give you an idea of what is involved.

+1 on Adrians book. Nice read, keep it in the bathroom if need be, and read through a few pages here and there.

Don't expect the same raw power you get out of an STi, but, definitely expect to turn heads

Bertrand

The 964 is great. But don't sell the Spider...

Laker

With cabs, they can generally be found with less mileage and unmolested for often less money. On the flip side they will never make a good track car, and the roof mechanism is classic German over-engineering: hundreds of moving parts that can cost thousands to sort out when it breaks. However top down rides on twisty roads makes it all worthwhile

Try for one manufactured from December 1990 onwards. The head gasket was not added until that time. ( I missed the cutover by about 175 engines-assembled 30-Nov-1990)

August West

Hey Sarge,

I didn't mean to diss on the STi...I used to have an '98 Outback and loved the flat-four and the all-wheel-drive worked really well. If I were you, I'd actually consider keeping the STi for your winter needs unless you need the ground clearance of the Toyota 4Runner. If you haven't driven a 4Runner, you'll find them pretty gutless powerwise.

And keep the Alpha Romeo if you can unless it's on it's last legs!

As for the 964 being a daily driver, I'd say yes, especially since they tend to be more reliable the more it gets driven. The ones that don't get driven are the ones that end up costing more because they sit too long and seals dry up, fluids go bad, and the mice move in and party like it's 1999.

sgtpeper

Makes sense to me. For a 4 Runner I'm actually only considering a used V8 limited. Here in Denver the V8 is awesome. I used my uncle's once for a camping trip and I was absolutely impressed with the performance. I do agree the V6 in the 4runner is pretty gutless.

I would love to keep both the STi and the Alfa, but I definitely don't have space for 3 cars right now.

As for reliability that makes sense as well. People say the same thing about Alfas. I try to drive my Alfa as often as possible to keep it in top shape. This is why high mileage doesnt bother me. Lack of maintenance does!

Thanks,

R6XTERRA

I own a 91 964 cab, tripple black 5spd, the car is absolutely awesome. I had a coupe before the cab.....definately more stable in the corners etc as per above.

I installed a stage 1 protomotive turbo on my cab and it will eat almost anything out there....... super fast and super fun to drive. The 964 to me is absolutely awesome in every way but needs more HP, thus the turbo.

My wife drove my 964 coupe as a daily for a few years and it never had a single problem.

Stay away from the cheap cars...you will end up paying through the nose by the time they are just right. I always spent more on my cars and get a good PPI and have never had any problems with them since owning.

Jeff

Makmov

Hi all,

I currently have a 2011 STi Limited and a '74 Alfa Spider. I'm thinking of selling both and buying a 964 cab and a 4Runner for winter duty. I'm just sick of most modern cars and their completely computerized driving experience. I just love the classic look of the 964. So I have a bunch of newb questions.

1. How reliable is the 964?

Mine has been dead reliable.

2. What is the best year of the 964?

1991 the car saw major updates.

3. What should I look for when buying a 964?

endless list of things, as mentioned get a PPI and or bring someone that knows the cars well with you.

4. What are must options?

I don't know that there are any must have options.

5. Am I crazy?

Could be.

6. What are some good shops in the Denver area for repairs?

Yes. There are, I also in Denver work on my own car, and previously had been a Porsche mechanic that almost exclusively worked on air cooled 911s. I also know of some shops I would take my own car to if I had to.

7. What else should I know before going down this road?

The more you know the better off you will be. I don't how to put many years of experience into a simple post. Not that you would "get it" any way. Somethings you just need to have the experience.

vasculardoc

Über reliable. 2300000kms on the clock and I've owned the car 4 yrs and the only thing that has broken in that time was a thermostat - original part probably based on maintenance records.
In terms of buying one - PPI PPI PPI. Then get someone who knows the cars to really go over it with a fine tooth comb. Buy the best you can afford and then drive it with a smile every day - belt it through the hills, shred tyres, burn brakes and love very minute of it. I do :-))))))
Ps I also had an sti (2000) and a legacy B4, and a BMW e30 325i with factory m-technic suspension/box and trick bits, have driven hot mercs, e type jags, xkr, and god knows how many other sports cars - and they all pale in comparison to my car in terms of pure total motoring joy. Buy one !!!!