RS America
12-12-2011, 05:03 PM
#1
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RS America
What is this forum's opinion about the '92 - '93 RS America 964's? I would like to purchase one but perhaps these cars are overpriced at the moment? Almost double the price of the standard cars?
12-12-2011, 05:11 PM
#2
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Search is a big help here.
It happens to be my opinion that the RSA should easily bring over twice the price of a similar C2 as it is easily twice the car.
I know mine is - just ask her, she'll tell you so.
It happens to be my opinion that the RSA should easily bring over twice the price of a similar C2 as it is easily twice the car.
I know mine is - just ask her, she'll tell you so.
12-12-2011, 05:47 PM
#3
Although I thoroughly appreciate Kai's position on this issue, I would have to say the standard C2 is 85% of the way there already and at a nice savings to boot. Not sure if an RSA is worth $40-$50K in this market compared to a nicely dialed in $20-$25K C2, but I have been suprized in the past. Once a C2 is dialed in it's very hard to beat 
12-12-2011, 06:16 PM
#4
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When I began my search for a 964, I looked at the "value proposition" between a C2 and an RS. From a resale standpoint, an RS will always command higher prices due to the build numbers. From a performance perspective, the Porsche 911 buyers guide references show the following: (stock)
RS C2
Weight 2954 lbs. 3031 lbs. (77 lb. diff.)
H.P. 260 247 (13 hp diff.)
0-60 mph 5.4 sec. (factory) 5.5 sec. (factory) ( .1 sec. diff.)
I saved easily 70 lbs. by removing the 8-way, electric seats and replaced them with Recaro PP's, slapped on some PSS10s and firm springs, and a cat bypass and although not an RS, she is a pretty darn fast car for the money. She is still a better car than I am a driver.....
Maybe I am cheap, but I like to make value purchases and a C2 looked like a pretty good deal.
RS C2
Weight 2954 lbs. 3031 lbs. (77 lb. diff.)
H.P. 260 247 (13 hp diff.)
0-60 mph 5.4 sec. (factory) 5.5 sec. (factory) ( .1 sec. diff.)
I saved easily 70 lbs. by removing the 8-way, electric seats and replaced them with Recaro PP's, slapped on some PSS10s and firm springs, and a cat bypass and although not an RS, she is a pretty darn fast car for the money. She is still a better car than I am a driver.....
Maybe I am cheap, but I like to make value purchases and a C2 looked like a pretty good deal.
12-12-2011, 06:19 PM
#5
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Chris is correct, of course, but RSA owners are indeed special, just ask me.
No real diference btw. the cars at all beyond the steering rack, lightweight stuff and R&P...I certainly wouldn't recommend that one pays much of a premium just to have a RSA. I did, but got a perfect car and one that was faster than the others by quite a margin!
The condition of the car overall is far more important...unless you are willing to pay $7,500 for a manual steering rack.
No real diference btw. the cars at all beyond the steering rack, lightweight stuff and R&P...I certainly wouldn't recommend that one pays much of a premium just to have a RSA. I did, but got a perfect car and one that was faster than the others by quite a margin!
The condition of the car overall is far more important...unless you are willing to pay $7,500 for a manual steering rack.
12-12-2011, 06:23 PM
#6
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I would be willing to pay a premium for one with no sunroof. The others, not so much. Can't say I loved the manual steering rack in mine. The seats were nice though.
Regarding the price, it won't come down anywhere near a C2 level. Ever. Even though it was $10K less than a C2 when new. It's a limited production car and very few are left in original condition.
Regarding the price, it won't come down anywhere near a C2 level. Ever. Even though it was $10K less than a C2 when new. It's a limited production car and very few are left in original condition.
12-12-2011, 06:54 PM
#7
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How about that non-assisted steering? Is it really heavy? And what's wrong with the sunroof? I remember from my very first car that it is a joy for listening to the engine!
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12-12-2011, 09:08 PM
#8
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With 225 front tires it could be a bit of a pain. And if you track the car you definitely feel it.
The sunroof adds weight to the top of the car and lowers the ceiling by about an inch. Not great in my book. The car is also more rigid without it. But as long as you're OK with that it's all that matters. Best of luck on your hunt!
The sunroof adds weight to the top of the car and lowers the ceiling by about an inch. Not great in my book. The car is also more rigid without it. But as long as you're OK with that it's all that matters. Best of luck on your hunt!
12-12-2011, 11:05 PM
#10
While I am a new member here on Rennlist and as a new 964 owner (Oct purchase of a '94 C2), I am a long time Porsche owner (I have owned my '65 356 SC for 34 years and one of my '72's for 29 years).
When searching for my 964 I looked at both RSA's and C2's and the fact is that RSA's do command approximately twice what a C2 will bring. It is also a fact that the RSA's cost $10K less when new.
Now comes the strange part in my mind, the configuration of the cars. The RSA came as a semi-lightweight with sunroof, AC, and radio delete, it also had special sport seats and lightweight interior, and manual steering rack. Now when the cars were ordered there were 4 options available; LSD (a good choice for a sporting car), AC, sunroof, and radio. So if you ordered a RSA with the four options and put it next to a C2 with LSD how much of a true delta did you have. Now if you look at the production numbers, I think you would find that a '94 C2 5 speed is a more rare occurrence that a RSA. In 1994 there were 139 RSA's and 200 C4/C2/Tip/5 Speed, so it is a safe bet that less that 139 of those 200 were 5 speed C2's.
Rather than think that the RSA's are over valued I would argue that the C2's are a screaming deal. Since I bought mine with modifying it to my tastes in mind I might have been more thoughtful and gone for one from one of the higher production years, but alas it is the one I found. It will be the more rare as one of the few 6 speed 964's and I was able to find a pair of RSA sport seats to dress out the inside.
It is my opinion that the RSA will continue to lead the way price wise for no other reason than people are willing to pay for this model. I just wish I had the funds and room to stash away a few more C2's for the future.
When searching for my 964 I looked at both RSA's and C2's and the fact is that RSA's do command approximately twice what a C2 will bring. It is also a fact that the RSA's cost $10K less when new.
Now comes the strange part in my mind, the configuration of the cars. The RSA came as a semi-lightweight with sunroof, AC, and radio delete, it also had special sport seats and lightweight interior, and manual steering rack. Now when the cars were ordered there were 4 options available; LSD (a good choice for a sporting car), AC, sunroof, and radio. So if you ordered a RSA with the four options and put it next to a C2 with LSD how much of a true delta did you have. Now if you look at the production numbers, I think you would find that a '94 C2 5 speed is a more rare occurrence that a RSA. In 1994 there were 139 RSA's and 200 C4/C2/Tip/5 Speed, so it is a safe bet that less that 139 of those 200 were 5 speed C2's.
Rather than think that the RSA's are over valued I would argue that the C2's are a screaming deal. Since I bought mine with modifying it to my tastes in mind I might have been more thoughtful and gone for one from one of the higher production years, but alas it is the one I found. It will be the more rare as one of the few 6 speed 964's and I was able to find a pair of RSA sport seats to dress out the inside.
It is my opinion that the RSA will continue to lead the way price wise for no other reason than people are willing to pay for this model. I just wish I had the funds and room to stash away a few more C2's for the future.
12-13-2011, 07:21 AM
#11
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The 964 RSA´s are indeed especial cars, in Buenos Aires there are two of them (with usual mods: chip, exhaust and suspension) and they easily dominate their category against 964s.993s and even older Boxsters.
They even got better circuit times than most Cayman S in our local Porsche Club
They even got better circuit times than most Cayman S in our local Porsche Club
12-13-2011, 09:17 AM
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Could it be the simple fact that RSA owners are all attractive, successful and gifted drivers?
I agree with much of the above - it's the cache we pay for. A proper sunroof delete can be done for around $4000 and the manual steering, while wonderful, will really work you with 225 slicks up front.
I agree with much of the above - it's the cache we pay for. A proper sunroof delete can be done for around $4000 and the manual steering, while wonderful, will really work you with 225 slicks up front.
12-13-2011, 10:10 AM
#15
my $0.02
This thread has been covered many times, and often follows the same pattern. RSA owners saying for sure, and C2 owners ripping RSAs.
Alot of RSAs are overpriced for sale. Unmollested ones with low miles bring top dollar, but I think the drivers are not collecting what they were a couple of years ago. A significant amount of RSAs have been wrecked or damaged at the track. Mine had taken a hit at Road Atlanta before I bought it, but was properly repaired.
The rack is old school sweet, and for street driving does not need assist. On a tight track, in an enduro or extended run groups it will test your upper body conditioning. The last 911 manual rack is part of it's link with the earlier cars.
The purists never liked sunroofs. I enjoy my sunroofs, they help to keep the air circulating with the windows closed, but sunroof delete has always retained significant value.
Bruce Anderson's advise to buy the best condition car really hold true in 964s. RSAs probably are not worth the difference, but you will probably be able to get the premium back if you sell. They are all great drivers
.
Alot of RSAs are overpriced for sale. Unmollested ones with low miles bring top dollar, but I think the drivers are not collecting what they were a couple of years ago. A significant amount of RSAs have been wrecked or damaged at the track. Mine had taken a hit at Road Atlanta before I bought it, but was properly repaired.
The rack is old school sweet, and for street driving does not need assist. On a tight track, in an enduro or extended run groups it will test your upper body conditioning. The last 911 manual rack is part of it's link with the earlier cars.
The purists never liked sunroofs. I enjoy my sunroofs, they help to keep the air circulating with the windows closed, but sunroof delete has always retained significant value.
Bruce Anderson's advise to buy the best condition car really hold true in 964s. RSAs probably are not worth the difference, but you will probably be able to get the premium back if you sell. They are all great drivers
.