88 Club Sport

I’ve been tracking my ‘78sc ( with a ’85 3.2 ) for some time. The car is set up for 95% track use; poly bushings, 23/31 bars, tarett sways, RA1’s, light weight race seats with a limited interior, no ac, etc. It’s good for approx 230hp and weighs 2350lbs. It has be a great car to work on and drive but after the past 5 yrs of tracking it, I’m thinking of some newer technology. I do think I want to go the Cayman/996 route and cannot afford a 04/05 GT3 so the 964 seems a logical platform to move to.

So the big question is…..will a well set up 964 really give me much more than what I have. I’d expect to do the normal to the 964 to get it ready; RS clutch, KW clubsport, chip, suspension bushings etc. I’d pull out as much weight as possible with the goal of maybe 2750 and 265hp.

Has anyone any experience moving from a well set up early car to a well set up 964….would love the hear your feedback.

bauerjab

I went from an 87 Targa (fully race prepared) to a 964 Cup. Huge improvement due to lighter weight, better brakes, and more HP and torque.

I think your "move up" is actually a move backwards due to the massive increase in weight. Just my 2 cents.

KaiB

Look at lap times and records btw Stock E, G and Prepared H classes. You'll see very few significant differences.

Case in point: At Hallett this weekend, a SC ran in E and broke into 1:259x whereas a well driven 964 RSA holds the prepared H class record of 1:24.625. I dare say the driver of the SC could better that on a good day.

As our level, there is not much difference btw. cars.

And I love yours!!!

88 Club Sport

The added weight is one of my biggest concerns but I was hoping the more modern suspension and larger brakes might offset that by giving better handling.

Someone else recommended a varioram in my '78...add some larger brakes and that might be a better plan.

bauerjab

Even with better suspension - and it won't be that much better given that you have modernized your SC's suspension - you still will feel like you're driving a pig. And that added weight will result in faster wear rates for all consumables involved. If you can add larger brakes, that's what I would do.

Amroth

I agree

CWay27

I agree with every one else. The regular 964 won't give you much more if nothing at all. Your car looks pretty well setup and dialed in from all those years testing. To jump over the 964 platform would be a waste of money and time. Check out vehicle craft or what ever they're called, they have a big red setup for your car.

If you want to jump to the 996 platform, I would only consider an ex-koni car or GS car. They are stripped race cars and huge amount of money were dropped into them and now worth a lot less but in the same price range as 996 GT3. Don't buy a regular 996 thinking you can make a decent track car..... Cause it won't and in the end you'll regret it and car will still be a huge pig with a water cooled engine..... Unless you go all out and build a koni car, which comes down to what I said earlier.

I know this cause I started with a track prepped RSA and moved to a 996 3.6. I dumped a crap load of money with all the GT3 bits (suspension, sways, bushing, full brake setup etc) only to make it a bit better. I don't regret doing it but now I know more what I want.... Atleast I think I do!!

ValveFloat

I recently drove a track prepped SC back to back with my car at a DE at my local track. The SC has a carbed 3.0, so not as much power as your car, but probably similar weight. The biggest thing I noticed between the cars is that the 964 is so much less physical to drive. The SC, with no power brakes (is that normal?) no power steering and a 915 gearbox was just a lot of work, and I was really happy to get back into my 964 because I feel so much more relaxed and able to concentrate on things other than finding gears with the shifter, muscling the wheel and brake pedal, if that makes any sense. Because of the lighter controls the 964 feels lighter to me even though I know the car is significantly heavier.
I have never had brake issues with the stock calipers & rotors, PFC pads, and Motul 600 fluid.

88 Club Sport

Great feedback guys. Based on feedback here and over on Pelican it appears a move to a 964 to get improved lap times is really not worth the cost and effort (lots of efforts since I'd be doing it).

The main reason for considering the 964 was improved lap times. I run in our Black group and a few years back the car was VERY competitive. Today 50% of the cars in Black are GT3's and it is becoming increasingly difficult to run with the pack per se. At the last DE, the GT3’s have me by 3 or so seconds. I guess I do not like having to point by after many years of getting the point by from others

I recently added cool braking (ducting through the front valance, block off plates) so I really do not see fade. Maybe bigger brakes would help but I'm not 100% convinced. The best advice so far is to put a massaged 3.6 into the old gal but I'll drop $12k and WILL need brakes with the addition of 50 or so HP.

Our next DE is the same weekend as Rennsport at Laguna, one of my favorite tracks. I chose to go to Rennsport so I have some time to ponder what I'll do for next year. Thanks again for everyone’s input.

christallon

I have a 73 2.7 RS motored 911 that is set up for street/track work. It weighs 2,350 Lbs and I love the lightness, and agility it offers me as a driver when pushed to the limit. I also have a 964 that I recently added KW's, upgraded brake pads, RS sways, good track/street tires, a chip, exhaust etc and find it much easier to drive fast on the limit. I think overall it'll give me better lap times on like tracks. I doubt it'll be more than a second maybe second and a half per lap, but faster for sure. Given the choice between the two, it's always the 964 that gets driven. BTW, it probably weighs 2,875 Lbs so the dynamics are different, but still way fun to drive!!!!

KaiB

I will admit that with the short ratio tranny in my 964 we take joy giving GT3s all they want. But were working and driving much harder...

88 Club Sport

And that is what I am looking for I'm ok working hard....it's what I know.

boxsey911

Having had the pleasure of some track rides in a 964 cup I can confirm that the experience is raw, visceral and extremely quick. The experience is exciting and purely Porsche. If you have the time and money to transform a 964 so that it is close cup spec, you will not be disappointed. Here is the evidence for consideration

bauerjab

It is a fortune to try to transform a 964 into a 964 cup and it's not really possible. Moreover, its not worth all the expense Need to get different doors, different clutch, different hood, different suspension and brakes, different steering, take out air bags, and need to seam weld body. I think you will be hugely dissappointed for the kind of money you would have to dump into the car. If money is no object, then by all means, have at it.

KaiB

One wonders how many secs a cup car could gain over a well prepared normal everyday 964.

I say precious few, if any.