Earlydays

...keep on the under tray, it's a great oil catcher and keeps it off the garage floor

GuyMonnin

I understand passion for a car. I have it for my Porsche! I had many preconceived stereotypes about German car owners and about Porsche owners. I assumed excellence was demanded in most aspects of their lives and this was reflected in the precision of the vehicle they drove. I.e. A person who doesn't want shoddy; they NEED it right to be happy with it. It truly surprised me when so many defended the indefensible (oil leaks) in
their pride and joy. It still
surprises me when another
poster shares their frustration
with an engine that has
obvious design flaws and are
essentially told that, "your
not a Porsche guy then."

I always thought a "Porsche Guy" demanded excellence. I truly did. Heck, if a guy tints his windows, he gets flamed but oil leaks are OK and if he expected more, he's not a
"Porsche Guy?"

If I drop this kind of money in a car, I'm a "I want it right Guy".

If it sits, gaskets dry out and it leaks oil. Don't buy a low mileage 964 then?

If it has 95-100k, it leaks oil. Don't buy a higher mileage 964 because it will need a reseal or top end job?

No anger or even frustration at this point (except I am chomping at the bit wanting my car back! Excited and can't wait!). It is confusing though that a poster making honest observation gets flamed instead of Porsche, who created the heartache the poster is expressing. We are the enthusiasts. We should hold Porsche up to standards of excellence.

Just thinking out loud...

falcor

I want excellence from my car when I drive it...and that I get in abundance.... What it does when it sits in my garage....(letting a few drops of oil out) sure, I'd prefer it to be completely dry but compairing the joy of driving it to cleaning up a few oilstains every two or three weeks. It's an easy choice.

As for the quality of Porsche cars...they are and were when the 964 was new a car company as any other. They make high performance cars to sell at the time they're new. Do you think a new 997 sold today will be perfect in every way in the year 2031? I dont...

Any old used car will have some issues....you just need to find one that's good enough for you to be able to overlook the flaws and still enjoy it..

If you want absolute perfection, you need to buy new, but then you need to up your budget or buy a Honda...

Laker

these are twenty year old cars. Rubber and cork gaskets shrink and crack with age. Show me a 20 year Mercedes, BMW, Rolls Royce or what have you and I will show you oil leaks or a recently re-sealed engine. Don't blame Ferry, blame Victor Reinz. My dad's '87 MB 500SL was nicknamed the rolling Superfund site. Just be glad we don't have to worry about coolant leaks.

GuyMonnin

I guess what I was getting at was that, based on the reading I've done, alot of these cars (more than not?) started leaking oil just about the same time they rolled off the showroom floor. Age sure doesn't help the issue but it also isn't the primary reason for the issue either.

The comment regarding 997's 20 years from now captures my point. They probably will have a laundry list of quirks; like the 993 and 996.

I just wish porsche would have used some of its vast profits (most profitable automaker in the world) towards a bit more R&D. They certainly charged a premium for these cars when they are new - even though the technology being sold was beautiful but dated. Porsche primary product until 1998 was an air cooled, naturally aspirated flat six for crying out loud. I guess its a moot point now and really any energy crying about is pointless. All manufacturers have issues, most many issues. Fortionately, even with oil leaks, Porsches plug on with a good degree of reliabillity. On the bright(er) side, 964's are now classics that I truly believe they will appreciate. Consequently, with patience, the value of my soon to be extremely well sorted 964 will eventually catch up to the initial purchase price + the cost of the complete rebuild.

I asked my mechanic yesterday if I should expect oil leaks once the engine has been rebuilt. I was pleased to hear, "no." That was good to hear.

Unkle

To be fair he is unlikely to tell you it will be weeping oil within 2 years. but i am more than happy that porsche spent R&D time and money on the parts i consider important for the Carrera, and it has nothing to do with the occasional drip of oil...

GuyMonnin

Since the most important ingredient to a well sorted engine (any engine) is the oil, what could be more important than R/D to keep the oil in it's engine. Not to mention oil on road, track, exhaust (fire hazard), oil spray on your tires. As much as anything, the impression that the thing is NOT a quality vehicle because it leaves a pool on your buddies concrete drive. It irritates me that a car I care about is prone to leak oil. It is bizarre that so many that also care about the car defend it or completely embrace it.

zizu

My C4 is a DD and no oil leak whatsoever (I "go" to work only once a week though, lol). Bone dry.
It did have a reseal and top end 4 years ago (by a P Guru) currently 114k miles.
Love that thing, rock solid. I need to work on the cosmetic now...

rarebear

Rocket Rob hit the soft spot ! Almost every Porsche mechanic wants to make more money
from a P owner (they are all rich aren't they ?). So they sell engine rebuilds !

swftiii

Agree with Rocket and rarebear that you cannot always trust the first mechanic and person that has looked at your car to know the details of a 20 year old car. One says full rebuild and with a little research and talking to someone who really knows these cars it is a $.50 O-Ring that takes 2 hrs of time to replace...many of these oil leaks can be easily addressed during a valve adjustment, not overfilling your oil (must know how to correctly measure oil level), etc.

Remeber what Porsche's focus was when these cars were designed and built (20 years ago) - racing and performance (meaning driving performance). Although oil leaks are a bit of a nuseance, that wasn't their focus. Remember they were top of the food chain for affordable exotic very fast and great handling cars in those days. My Hondas and Mazdas back in those days were horrendous and leaked oil, coolant, freon, etc. and required part after part of replacement and they were not 20 years old. So, you guys aren't making valid comparisons - on one hand you have a car that is for performance driving and instills excitement and on the other side you have cars that are all about efficiency and cheapness that are bland and boring.

As for lack of quality...how many 1990 hondas/toyotas/mazdas/etc. do you see on the road? How many of them can be daily drivers, head to the track and run in stock form all weekend at red line, and then be driven home without a problem? Try that with even the new japanese cars and you will be replacing brake calipers, suspension parts, etc. just to survive. Come on guys...think about what these cars were built for back then...not for garage queens, but for performance driving based on Porsche's racing heritage.

Also, if you don't like what an old Porsche is about then maybe it just isn't for you. It sounds like someting new and leased so you get something new every few years may be more your liking as all cars will have issues over time...they are a wear item.

Viva Porsche! It is not just a car, it is a passion!

parsonii

no leaks but mine kinda has had some work done on it

reed

I replaced my shifter bushings yesterday and marveled at how every bolt and every nut came off without a problem. Whenever I do work on my 4Runner I spend more time freeing rusted bolts than doing the repair itself.

Let's not forget that no car is perfectly designed. While your Honda or Toyota may not leak oil, they will literally turn to dust before your eyes because of horrible rust protection. In fact, I don't think the Japanese manufacturers even galvanized their cars until sometime in the 1990s. You can't get much worse engineering than that. You can always rebuild an engine. Rebuilding a car's structure--not so easy.

dlpalumbo

I read on another thread that early 964's had a problem with a sticking oil thermostat that caused the engines to overheat. This led to the recommendation that the engine trays be removed. It also led to gaskets failing, oil leaks and compression leaks. This all makes sense to me.

I hate oil leaks and have agressively attacked them on all my cars. My 90 C4 is wet and it drove me bats at first (along with the compression leaks). The front diff leaks as well.

This is still the best car I've ever owned. So I'm working up to dropping the engine to get it sorted out.

Seems like a good Winter's project.

budtaylor

You miss my point exactly and love is a relative term.

Allow me you to educate you on my model year. They included no head gasket from the factory which in Germany temperatures worked out fine but in American southern states did not fare so well...Metal in extreme heat (think Texas, Florida) causes metal to warp and the 90 and 91's without the head gasket's in fact did just that... warped and leak. No one expects gaskets to last more than 20 years. The factory knew about this problem and even replaced some free of charge in the first years after release. What was replaced quietly and non-officially should have been a recall and was in fact a very serious design flaw in the engine. In addition, the Dual mas Flywheel failure was also a very serious design flaw and most failed within the first 40K miles in the 90-91 models (my understanding after talking to dozens of other P-Car folks and mechanics). Now after all of that and knowing that the manufacturer has given it to me in the bum do I still love my car ? You bet. Do I love it more than my old 1984 928 (affectionately dubbed Christine). Yes.

Do I love the fact that I have been taken financial advantage of by someone with much deeper pockets than my own...not so much. Will I purchase a 997 Targa when I can afford one and hope that there are no major design flaws as with my 964. Yes. YMMV

rarebear

A 911 is like a beautiful woman , you don't blame her for using your gillette on her legs or the toothpaste tube pinched at the wrong end or the little black hairs in your tub !
You enjoy her for the other qualities... and if she leaks. Who cares !!!!

My 964 is one of the first C2's. 1989. 256k on the clock
Give me one car that age still doing 160 mph And no creak or leak .....