Black930

OK guys so I just got a 1995 993 3.6 engine and will be fitting it into my 91 964 with stock g50 that has no engine. I know wiring needs to be changed a bit and exhaust as well as oil lines but can anyone help me out and guide me threw what exactly needs to be done and why please. Also pictures will help, I have engine,dme,and harnesses. I hear alot of 3.6 into earlier cars but have many of you guys done this upgrade? hows it working if so? will I need any special parts? If not can anyone point me in the right place. Thank you.

SDemas

I have done one of these. We still have the car so we can help along the way with pictures.
Engine bolts right in.
Electronics were not very hard. Will have to remember the changes but just a few small changes.
Oil lines. I created an AN SS line to run under the engine instead of around by the exhaust. Still run two oil filters with an adapter to run out of the engine for oil. The parts are all available from Smart Racing or Elephant to adapt the stock lines.
Exhaust is not hard either. We run the stock 993 catalytic converter with fabspeed supercups. If you need mufflers you will have to fab some up or modify the stock 993 mufflers.
It works awesome!
Stan

Mike Hall

Where did you end up snagging the 993 Engine?

Kaefer

Very cool. Here's what I'd do:

1. Install the 993 DME harness from the engine bay to the floor area under the drivers seat. Verify 993 DME harness connects to 964 front trunk harness with no pinout mods.

2. Source a complete set of 964 engine tins and install on 993 engine (or modify 993 tins to fit 964 engine bay after installing the 993 engine in the chassis). Mate the 993 engine to the '91 G50 trans using a RS (lightweight) flywheel package and install the engine/trans in the chassis. Connect DME harness to various connectors on engine. Get pinout specs on chassis side 14 pin connector and 993 engine 14 pin connector and adjust pins as necessary on chassis side 14 pin connector.

3. Modify the 964 fuel and oil lines as needed which looks pretty easy. I'd do this after installing the engine/trans in the chassis to make sure the modified lines will fit properly.

4. Use the stock 993 heat exchangers and fab up a 2 outlet muffler. Ben @ M&K makes mufflers that attach to 993 heat exchangers. If you specify one for a SC/Carrera it should work. You would have to trim the lower valance a bit around the outlet pipes for clearance. Another choice is the "$200 muffler" as seen on the Pelican 911 technical forum.

4a. If you need to use a cat then use the 964 heat exchangers and primary and/or secondary muffler delete. Or use the 993 cat and no mufflers (loud).

5. Install a Steve Wong 911chips.com chip configured for headers, 2 out exhaust, and lightweight flywheel in the DME. Install the DME under the drivers seat and plug in the DME harness.

6. Get the car up and running and have fun!

7. Start planning a LSD install in the trans along with custom shorter gears!



Also - I happen to have a set of 964 engine tins (minus one piece) that I could part with. Let me know if you need them!

Black930

SDemas: sounds great.

Mike: I got lucky I called a local guy named rick for something else and he was about to go pick up a totaled 95 993 he told me so I talked to him about the upgrade I was planning and he said he had the whole car coming so we worked out a deal. He called me monday said the car was in and sent me a video of it running and yesterday I went to pick it up. Just got LUCKY.

kaefer thanks for the heads up I am not ready yet car is still in body shop but I am trying to get everything I need before hand. Also trying to see where to source anything I might need. I will let you know about the tins.

Can you guys point me in the right direction to find out about the harnesses,RS light weight flywheel package who offers these for sale? what price should I stay within? Unfortunately there are guys who try to rip people off so thats why I ask about the price range. Thanks guys.

Kaefer

Is the car going to be a street car with limited track use or a track car with limited street use?

If it's going to be a street car I'd install stock seat belts and leave the harnesses out. You could probably sell off the harnesses and harness bar, then buy stock seat belts, and have a net zero cost.

If it's going to be somewhat of a track car then reinstall the harnesses you have. The harness system in that car was complete and within current date specs.

For a RS flywheel package I'd chat with Steve at Rennsport (tell him I sent ya) and/or the guys at Sunset Porsche in OR. Steve can also probably help with an exhaust system and (later on) a LSD for the trans.

Black930

Thanks scott where should I look to get info about the 993 DME connecting to 964 front harness? Car will be mostly street and I would love to try a track a few times only if time allows.

SDemas If you can let me know what electrical changes you had to do I would appreciate it. Also what had to be modified as far as fuel lines?

Kaefer

The Rennlist forums of course!

Hopefully someone in the 993 forums has the factory pin diagrams for the 993 harness and hopefully someone in the 964 forum has the diagram for the 964 chassis harness under the drivers seat and the 14 pin connector in the engine bay.

Or....someone who has done the conversion can say YES just plug the 993 DME harness into the 964 chassis harness under the drivers seat no mods needed.

The 964 and 993 factory workshop manuals have the pin diagrams. If it comes down to it you'll need to get copies of both diagrams and verify pin locations yourself.

I can help with a 993 engine side 14 pin connector diagram.

Please document any and all wiring mods you end up doing!

Kaefer

Nothing on the return line. That should just plug in.

On the supply line (pass side attached to filter) the line from the filter to the engine may need to be lengthened up to a few inches (or it may not). I do recall the supply connection on the 993 engine is further away from the filter by a few inches vs. the 964 engine.

Kaefer

Good advice!

Black930 I'd probably work with Chuck at Elephant Racing for the modified oil lines and fuel supply line (if needed).

cobalt

Just curious what advantage is a 95 3.6 over a 91 3.6?

HP is not much different and other than hydraulic lifters which can be an issue at 60k why bother?

I can see if it was a varioram engine but that didn't begin until mid 96 IIRC.

UncleRemus

I think you should be comparing the '95 3.6 to a void in his engine bay.

Kaefer

Well yeah....there's that!



Stock vs. stock I agree there's not much difference in power in similar condition 964 engines vs. OBD1 993 engines. In fact in my conversations with Black930 I suggested buying an engine primarily based on overall condition and make version (964, OBD1 993, Vario) secondary. However the '95 engines are my personal favorite!

I do think the OBD1 993 engine is a better base engine for future power mods. Not to mention it doesn't require the stock boat anchor crank pulley like the 964 engine requires.

JM993

And if desired, one can upgrade the 95 engine to Varioram and still retain OBD-1 operation. See link in my sig for more info.

Cheers,
Joe

Bill Verburg

There is a big difference

they are really 2 different engines