ray stobbs

petrol gone off maybe

frankvan

Richard,
i assume that if i have spark the dme is getting a signal from the CPS to fire?
Couldn't tell the colour of the spark but i will check again.

Ray,
I am beginning to think the gas (petrol) may be bad but it is a full tank and it only sat for a month or so in -20 weather. I might drain it and it and use it for the lawn mower.

Richard Curtis

It's common for a failing coil(s) to send a spark, just not one strong enough to ignite the fuel-air mixture. A strong spark will be blue; a weak spark will be yellow, red or orange. While one of those week sparks can sometimes set the mixture alight, performance will suffer. I've never known this "blue spark" test to fail in diagnosing a bad coil.

Of course, with two coils and the 964's ability to run on just one, this diagnosis isn't the most accurate. I've never tested it on a dual-coil system.

dfinnegan

Frank,

Any luck?

I've been looking through my notes and have a few more bits that may be helpful. Also, you have a PM.

Hope you get it sorted.

Hard start or stalling / Engine will not start

• engine temp sensor
  
  DME plug test

  
  connect ohmmeter test leads between terminals 45 and 30

  
  0*C = 4.4 - 6.8 kOhm
  15-30*C = 1.4 - 3.6 kOhm
  40*C = 1.0 - 1.3 kOhm
  80*C = 250 - 390 kOhm
  100*C = 160 - 210 kOhm
  

  break (infinit Ohm)

  
  In the event of a break the system uses a fixed (warm) setting
  which means there is no cold start enrichment and, therefore, cold
  starting problems.
  

  Short-circuit (0 Ohm)

  
  In cold state, no engine pick-up, too lean, and engine stops.
  No effect if engine is at operating temp.
  

  test sensor plug

  
  similar
  
• idle speed contact (idle micro switch) - ground short or break
  
  dme plug test

  
  connect ohmmeter test leads between terminal 52 and 24
  bridge ground to terminal 30
  throttle closed <10 ohms
  throttle open (> 1 degree) infinit ohms
  

  throttle switch plug

  
  connect ohmmetter test leads between terminals 1 and 2
  throttle closed <10 ohms
  throttle open (> 1 degree) infinit ohms
  

frankvan

Thanks Dave.
I'll give those pins a prod on the dme and in the engine bay.
Yesterday it almost started but still wouldn't completely fire. Totally confused.

Indycam

Have you tried starter fluid ?

frankvan

can of "quick start", but doesn't seem to make a difference.
So now i'm thinking it's a spark problem? It's frustrating because it was running fine before i put it away for a month. And i didn't touch any of the ignition, intake, fuel components - all i worked on were the PDAS lock seal in the transmission.
I've got the bbq cooking the meat slowly so while the family is distracted i'm going to sneak out to the garage and check what dfinnegan suggests.

thanks again for all the help guys.

F

Indycam

So its not to lean to run , is it to rich to run ? Are the 2 sparks bad ?

frankvan

So checked the temp sensor, idle speed switch (and WOT switch too since it's on the same connetor) and all appear to working peroperly.
HOwever, when cranking it tonight one of my daughters was observing and noticed something dripping in the engine bay. Turns out my oil is way overfilled - it was coming out of the fill tube (leaking past the big yellow screw cap).
Now i keep my oil full when warm and last time i filled it up it was -20-ish. Now it's +5-ish (that's celsius btw) could that affect the volume of the oil? I didn't think oil would expand that much over a 25 degree temperature range.
the other question i have is could that much oil cause the engine not to start? I pulled the ISV and it was clean, and I pulled a couple of the upper spark plugs earlier and they were clean too, but maybe i should pull a couple of lower ones to check for oil in the cylinders? I have had too much oil before but it just idled rough - never a no start situation.

Indy, i think it's too rich to run as i have gas leaking from the exhaust gasket at the cat to header. But maybe this oil thing is the culprit. Going to pull the manifold when i have time and check it inside out.

sml

That is cold .. is it even possible to get the engine sufficiently hot to check the oil level at that temp?

Do you use the blanket technique to speed things up?

Even in 30ish C weather it is a good 15-20 mins of idling.

dfinnegan

~1/4 qt over a 25C detla

frankvan

so if just cranking the engine is it possible to displace oil from the engine to the reservoir such that it would overflow?
Still curious if too much oil would lead to a no start condition.

SML,
I don't use a blanket, let it idle to warm up or anything, i just drive it. My daily commute is 20 to 30 minutes and the engine usually reaches normal operating temp after about 10 minutes even when it's really cold. I don't like to let things idle too long - i'm concerned about insufficient oil ditribution as the oil pump is running slowly (you could say the oil pump is "idling") and the oil is thick and cold.

frankvan

Well cleaned out the manifold and there was sludgy WATER in the resonance cross tube. Collects there from condensation because it sits lower i guess? (the manifolds actually bend up from that tube connection so there isn't anywhere for it to drain.)

I'm also thinking my oil overfill might be petrol from the injectors leaking past the rings and filling up the oil tank as the oil has a slight gasoline smell to it. If i have time i'll being draining some oil tonight to check it. Is gasoline lighter than oil?

dfinnegan

Made any progress?

frankvan

Got under the car and pulled off the lower panels (center cover and fuel pump cover) as i had those off to get at the tranny seal. I did find the flex part of the return fuel line to the bottom of the fuel tank had a big kink but given the dirt in the kinked part i think it has been that way for a while. But if it is new it might have restricted the return of fuel to the tank and caused the engine to super-flood with fuel?
I've tried to remove the kink and next i will pull out lower spark plugs to see if fuel comes out of the cyulinders and also to check condition of plugs.