campoj2

I guess the average cost to replace a clutch is $3K-ish??

MAB Badgerbimmer

I have a 964 with Tip, Audi A3 with DSG (dual clutch), Audi S4 with DSG and an E46 M3 with SMG. First thing to remember is that the Tip is an automatic, DSG and SMG are not. In fact the E46 SMG is the same transmission as the Manual with the addition of electronics and hydraulics . SMG is virtually unusable in auto mode, it is great in manual mode. DSG is great in either manual or auto mode. Tip is an auto tran it is not up to DSG or SMG as far as performance. But it should be, old technology. That said driving the Tip in the user select mode is not bad, I wouldn't want to track the car but for brisk country driving it is acceptable.

LouZ

BTW - had the TIP up to 162 mph, and I quit, not it!

campoj2

Lou - Are you north or south of the city?

LouZ

west - king of prussia (Valley Forge - see my avatar)

campoj2

You, me and Laker need to go out for beers....

George was north of the city we he made the "crossing" and he was south in Chester County (Battle of Brandywine), and as we all know he did spend some time in Valley forge

ACSGP

Just a few thoughts on the tip as I'm in the same boat as you (arthritic shoulder joints, torn neck ligaments, bad lower back, all from playing rugby).

The tip in the 964 was the best in class in 1990, having the first manual shift system. Believe that it preceded the Jaguar J-gate, though I could be wrong. If it was the same 3 speed as in the 924/944, I wouldn't have touched it.

Porsche did race the tip in the 964 Cup series, driven by the man himself, Walter Rohrl. It was 0.5 seconds slower than the manual over a flying lap of the Nordschleife, and only gave up time at the start.

There are only 2 cars in the world with the Cup transmission and ECU - the original race car still being driven by a German poster called Hacki on PCGB (apparently taught how to drive it by Rorhl himself), and the other in Robert Linton's Humpty Dumpty. For tech info, Robert may be able to give you far more than I. The main difference, I believe, is that the tip won't shift automatically at red-line, and the transmission was strengthened.

I use the 964 as a daily, and the tip is great as I drive in manual shift all the time. I did a friendly pull with a 360 from a rolling start, and kept up with him for the 1st 3 gears until traffic slowed us down. Not too shabby (or he was a lousy driver).

Weaknesses:
1. Slow take-off (when compared to the manual)
2. Starts in 2nd when in auto
3. Gear ratios relatively wide, 1st too low
4. No engine braking in 1st during overrun, as if the car is free-rolling and the lock-up clutch disengaged (maybe just my car)
5. Limited engine power upgrades, unless the tip is strengthened.

I've just put in a Steve Wong chip, and it's really helped in s/no 1 above as there's increased torque down low.

Not enough credibility given to the tip, IMO

This may be of interest to you, and I've asked for references on these boards, but nothing yet:
http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_cata...smissions.html

P.S On the PDK/DSG/DCT vs tip, there's now not much in it - look at the 0-60 times for the 997 Turbo Tip (Mk 1) vs the manual - the tip is quicker and can almost match the PDK's shift times. Plus, the auto can take far more torque, and is less fragile than a double-clutch box.

jimq

Put it in 3 and it will always start off in first gear.

ACSGP

P.S. On azander's 2 questions:

1. Is the 964 Tip similar to the E46 step? - No, my wife has an E46 cabrio, and being much more advanced the E46 shifts more smoothly, esp in manual shift mode.

2. LSD mod - yes for the tip:
http://www.quaife.co.uk/shop/products/qdf9q

I may be doing this shortly in my overall drivetrain overhaul.

sml

but they are both auto trans right? (ie quite different to the E46 SMG).

so i would say, yes, they are similar.

ACSGP

Similar in form, but not in performance. The E46 step is far smoother, given that its had 10 years of development over the 964 Tip. I have both cars.

morrisroad

When I was looking to buy my car I considered manual, would have but considered how often I would be driving the car on local roads and the tiptronic made the most sense. Wasn't expecting to track and the traffic around the area, even on weekends, is a mess. I find the performance of tip meets my needs, a few seconds or fractions of seconds don't make much difference for me. All the other characteristics of the car together make it still a great ride. As one poster notes, I would consider chips, and other things to improve performance if needed.

SKM

I prefer a manual transmission in the 964 and 993 cars. Left to its own shifting, the tipronic transmission always seemed to be in too high a gear for me e.g, want to be in second and it is in third, etc. However, for driving locally, you could pretty much leave it in second gear all the time and have great gearing, torque, etc. It's interesting to me that when in normal "drive" setting, it always started out in second gear, not first.

One positive aspect about tiptronic Porsches is that over-revs due to missed shifts are impossible as far as I know.

azander

Hello everyone!

Sorry for the late response. I do have a e46 Steptronic and we have SMG and DCT cars. So I'm aware of the difference between the 'clutchless' manual vs 'slusho'matics. However, I'm still really interested in a 964 as a possible weekend track & autoX car (with some daily use). Given my physical limitation I'm really wondering if the tiptronic can be made to work well? The factory Cup car sounds really intriguing in this regard.

I found a tiptronic car within a days drive which is some need of work. It's a '91, no sunroof, 90K miles. I'm thinking this might be a good base car to prep while taking care of the issues. It's too far away to demo so I have a few more questions.

Are there any differences between the Tip of a '92+? Is there any shifting lag especially when downshifting? At what point does the torque conv. lock? Is it possible to reprogram the manual function such that it holds each gear without the auto shift?

Thanks for all the help and comments!

jimq

the 92 + shows what gear you are in while in Auto mode 91- just shows D for frive