vespam5

Buy an m3

carnumber6

any car can spin when it is driven in a way to make it spin .. Learning what makes a car spin and taking the time to get good at it is a good way to work around the issue

Frank 993 C4S

+1

No car will allow you to beat the laws of physics. Before you change anything on your car, the best investment is good driving instruction.

Jimjacqmx5

Hmmm. Interesting thread this. In ANY car, lifting off the throttle when the car is absolutely at the limit of grip will result in lift off oversteer, due to the wieght transfer resulting in a shift in balance to the front of the car removing available grip at the rear. The secret in any car is being subtle and smooth in lifting the required amount to shift the balance between the front and rear of the car as required to alter the slip angle. It is also important how you turn into the corner, throw the car in and the resultant weight transfer will further unsettle the rear end. It is very important to drive smooth. Obviously there are exceptions to this such as at a khanacross or motorkhana event where you WANT to unsettle the car to allow it to slide.

I found the biggest issue with my 964 when i first drove it was massive understeer and the pitching and rolling on standard suspension which made the car feel loose. This pitching would very much exaserbate the tendency of lift off oversteer, due to the excessive wieght transfer and required a VERY smooth driving style.

My car now has 24mm front sway and 22mm rear sway, both three way adjustable. It runs konis and HR reds. With this combination, I feel very safe adjusting the line of the car through corners at the very limit of grip at over 200km/h. If the car is running wide in understeer, you lift a little bit, smoothly and the nose tucks in. It is all VERY predictable and I feel it is just as sweet on the limit as my previous track car which was the perfect handling MX5 or Miata as it is called in the US.

Did you crash the carrera on the track or the street? Usually these accidents occur out on the road and when people go too hot into a tightening radius corner and there are no options to wash off speed. You can't smoothly decelerate as there is not enough room to allow the car to run wide and you can't brake as the weight transfer (shift in balance to the front tyres) will result in the tail swinging around.

If it was on the track, learn each track using a late apex method first and then slowly bring the apex back and increase the cornering speed as you learn the track. This way you won't get into trouble. By late apexing, you always have more options should you need to adjust your speed and /or cornerng line through the turn.
If it was on the road, learn from it, and get ut on the track with your local Porsche club and learn in a safe environment how to master these amazing cars. I have been lucky enough to drive many fast cars and when you learn to drive a 911 well, nothing else is as exhilerating.

J richard

The tail happy nature of the 911 is what makes them so fun to drive. Do an autox or some skid pad work and you'll develop a feel for it and how to bring the tail in. At speed feeling the tail stepping out you have an amazing amount of grip in a 911 before it breaks loose... The key is understanding how much slip angle you can use and how much you can use trailing throttle oversteer to pivot the car. To a point adding throttle will load up the rear and add grip, but past that point it's both feet in. Don't be afraid of it just learn the limits of the car...

Makmov

Yeah, but when you learn how to dirve a 911 that will pretty much ruin ya on driving anything else.

FlatSix911

The 95- 98 Porsche 993 has significant suspension geometry improvements to tame the beast ...

race911

And it's funny that when I go back-to-back-to-back with my three on the same day, there's really not that much difference in the characteristics. Ultimate grip level sure. This is usually within an hour at a private test day, so there are no run sessions; and I'll do maybe 5-7 laps with each in as little time as it takes to pit, belt in, and go.

Jimjacqmx5

I think it's funny how they say they get tamer, the newer 911's get. I reckon a 996 GT3 is one of the trickiest 911's on the limit and it's suspension is much more advanced and supposedly user friendly than a 964 or an sc..
In a similar vein to others here, I can only say that if you understand the physics acting on your car, get driver training and kep it smooth, you should be able to hop in pretty much anycar and be fast and keep it straight. nListen to what the car is telling you and if inexperienced, slowly approach the limits. I also concur that getting out of shape as much as possible on a skid pan and doing lots of handbrake turns and sliding and learning to use the rear weight will get you up to speed and help with the confidence and trust in the car.

Unkle

On a lighter note

Anything can have lift off oversteer as Jimjacqmx5 says, this driver finds out after holding it to the floor from Flugplatz to Schwedenkreuz and then lifts. Its a front engine front wheel drive car BTW.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPfHtOfB99A



But if you put the engine at the rear

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3rrG7Eh5UM

Tuscany964

Personally I find lift off oversteer reassuring, understeer bothers me to a much greater extent, the only car I've tried that is virtually impossible to induce lift off oversteer in is a Citroen Dyane or 2CV. Third gear, steep downhill bend, hard on the brakes and I still couldn't get it to come around - pulling the handbrake helped a bit but not much... horrible car still gives me the shivers just thinking about it!

911Jetta

How bad is the throttle lift-off over steer on a 964?

What about a 964 with a 40/40 LSD?

I remember once driving my dad's C2 without LSD, stopping at a T intersection (with sand on road) looking for a gap in the traffic. I turned left (90 degree) and nailed the throttle...the rear end slid out big time (very fun, but very surprising at the same time).

My C2 with LSD seems much more locked down. In dry conditions I really can't get much over or understeer at sane road speeds. In spirited driving I only experience the mildest sensation of understeer, once the car stable in the turns it feels so solid I sometimes catch myself applying too much throttle (pre-apex) as the car rockets out of the turn.

Only in wet weather can I play with under/oversteer. I've experimented with lifting the throttle while power sliding the rear (slow speed intersection turns at the edge of town). The car always immediately corrects itself if I lift off the throttle (complete lift). This is in wet conditions, taking a 90 degree turn at around 30 mph. Slow speed handling. At speed I get a different sensation, very steady inputs are required, but keeping the power on (after the apex) keeps the car very stable. I remind myself to go in stable and then power out...also, I tell myself to "look where I want to go".

Here's a fun video of my car playing with some BOOSTED Turbos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QObT4...layer_embedded

-nick

OT: 911Jetta, I have plenty of comments on that video but few that would get past the censors.

Maybe you didn't notice the: blind corners galore, lots of residential driveways, a school bus stop sign (this means that there are kids in the neighborhood), and a horse crossing sign (near and dear to my heart). Stop and think about that.

That's about as nice a comment as I can restrain myself into leaving.

On-topic:
OP, I'm no expert by far, but I do know that the natural reaction is to lift your foot up entirely if you feel that you're too hot in the middle of a corner. The sudden inputs are what you have to learn to fight against. As mentioned, autocross, skidpad, wet/snowy parking lots, etc. are great ways to get a feel for at-the-limit behavior.

911Jetta

I knew that was coming...if you watched until the end, you'll note that I was behind about 10 other cars and about 30 motorcycles.
Plus we were way out in the country at the edge of a national forest.... Does that improve the situation?
No, but at least by the time I came through no one in the area was surprised.

I'm sure you wouldn't be caught dead going 10+ over. Enjoy your car and stop being hypocritical.

Jimjacqmx5

Meeeoooow. Bowl of milk to table five....