cobalt

The flairs are all the same. The turbo S ducts are added to the stock flairs. The metal ones AFAIK are NLA. They do vary from side to side and are welded in place. I have not seen a good TSL rear tail in years. Most everything will be a glass version of the Carrera tail. The side blade doesn't come as far forward as the TSL tail. I have an original 94 turbo S tail on my wall but they are much larger and NLA as well..

If you can find a good 3.3l T for sale needing TLC it would be a lot less work no doubt. I don't think they make kits for the 3.3L above 3.5L displacement but you would need to look into options. If you remove the CIS and go EFI with a twin plug and 3.4L you can see some serious power. There are some nice improvements to the 3.6L engines especially the Timing chain design and crank differences however decent power can be made by either.

The only way to go wide in the rear is to switch out the huge turbo rear trailing arms with NB ones.

GL

Maxi_z

My 964 carrera 2 is converted to 3.8 RS / RSR

But when they did the conversion they did not change the mounting points at the front to the wide ones but instead just ordered custom offset tramont wheels

The actual wheels are 11x18 ET 4 rear and 9x18 ET 30 front ( fitted with 5mm spacers )

The car is fitted with big brake kit , H&R sway bars, bilstein coilovers, etc...

I would like make the change to the wider mounting points at the front and use a different front wheel offset as the RS 3.8 ( 9x18 ET 48 or similar or eventually as the RSR with the wider 9.5 rim ) as I think that probably the steering feel would be better ( scub radius )


Do I just require the correct offset wheels , or are there other parts to be replaced to complete the work ? ( someone mentioned different sway bars , tie rods )

I would like to know the required parts , and also any upgrade parts that could be considered ( 993 parts or RSR parts or BBI hubs etc )


Thanks

Gus

I moved my front mounts to the wide body position. I run 18 x 9 with an ET of 43 and use a 18mm spacer. I also made a longer tie rod to replace the stock to make up for the extra distance if you keep other components stock. Don’t forget that you need to rotate the upper shock support mounts 180 degrees when in wide body position.

There's no Sub!

these cars actually use the narrow body mounting points not like the turbo that way you can fit wider Wheels.
11 inch rear wheels would not fit on a turbo.
sounds like they did it right

Maxi_z

They use the narrow body mounting points at the rear but at the front they use the wide mounting points as the turbo

Maxi_z

Compared to the OEM RS 3.8 oem specifications ( 18x9 ET 48 ) you would already have your wheels 5mm more out with ET 43 so I guess you use the spacer just because you like them to be more out than that but it would not be required right ?

If you would like to fitt all the oem widebody components to replace them what parts would be required ?

Do you still rotate the upper mounts if you want to use aggressive camber ?

Thanks

cobalt

Old thread.

I think most is already covered earlier but the front requires both top and bottom mounts to be in the outboard position for the WB. Same as the turbo. If you want track camber you will need adjustable top plates vs the factory parts. If you use mixed settings you will have either too much or not enough camber. I tried the inboard front with NB rear arms and the feel and handling was not as good IMO as the front in the outboard settings.

I just fit 245/295 on my 94T They work nicely but as wide as you can go. Some people use a wider rear by 1/2" but that is a far as you can push the turbo trailing arms.

I prefer the RS/RSR deep dish wheels in the rear but this isn't bad. No way am I modifying my turbo so these sized tires with 5mm spacers gives a pretty aggressive look and decent handling. I don't track this car.

Talat

Mine runs RSR front sway bar - tie rods should be same as NB. I think it's still available from Porsche - if you struggle sourcing one then let me know as I may know someone who has one.

Maxi_z

Cobalt

Thanks for your reply

Actually on your other car you wrote you were using the RSR 9.5 ET 57 wheels at front

For steering feel , clearance , etc , would you think that the 9.5x18 ET 57 RSR specification wheels is better compared to the RS 3.8 9x18 ET 48 ?

Tramont can either fit different barrels to my actual wheels ( and they would end up being 9x18 ET 43 ) or make new wheels with a thinner center hub that would then be the correct spec 9x18 ET48 , or of course make them in 9,5 with a custom ET


If I make the wider attachment point modifications I would want to get the wheels made with the correct ET so I would like to get as much info as possible, and also take into consideration other possible aftermarket modifications ( and their cost and eventual benefit ) before deciding on the specification

For example the use of 993 or BBI uprights or any other parts that you can suggest replacing at the same time and that would require a change in the ET of the wheels to get the offset and especially scrub radius as close as possible to Porsche factory RS 3.8 or RSR specifications.

The intent is to get the best possible steering feel.


Talat

Thanks for your reply

Did you made any changes to your car ? Still using the Tusche exhaust ?

I would also be interested at your wheel specifications and other mods and even better some pictures of your car.

I am using H&R sway bars actually , do you know if they make a front bar specific for the widebody ?


Off topic but as both of you are knowleadgeable and own a some widebody non standard 964 can I ask you what geometry settings you are using and what tyre pressures ?

Thanks

Bill Verburg

Stock 9964 w/ 7 E55 front wheels has a scrub radius of 0

there were lots of complaints about the steering feel so on the 9993 the scrub radius w/ 8ET52 front was -11.5

for ABS to function correctly, i.e. self correcting steering, scrub radius needs to be 0 or negative, the larger the absolute value of the s/r the more steering feel the car will have

older 911 had a scrub radius of +52.4 and folks rave about the steering feel and the liveliness of the wheel, this is because the larger the scrub radius the larger the feedback to the wheel

for the same width wheel using a larger ET raises ET by the difference between the 2 ETs, i.e. for a 964 going from 8 ET55 to 8 ET50, changes the s/r from 0 to +5

unfortunately I don't have any data on w/b s/r so you would have to do some measuring and using other than stock longitudinals further complicates the issue

I do know that for the 993 Cup and RSR cars they used 964 longitudinals to pull the wheel bottom back in which lowers the scrub radius then they used wider wheels w/ lower numerical ET which raises the s/r
in this diagram s/r is labeled pivot radius

other considerations illustrated are where the virtual and roll centers are, you would like to keep these as high as possible which is why the 993RS or BBi wheel carriers are recommended for a lowered car

Maxi_z

Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation

I noticed on other cars how the different scrub radius can change or make the steering reaction and steering feel worst or different than required

I think from my limited understanding of how those geometries work that sometimes things can be compensated with other toe or caster adjustments , and sometimes depending on what you want there could be some compromise made for example to clear other parts etc...


Back to the 964 WB and to my specific requirement and questions....


Actually my 964 is fitted with Tramont wheels ( 9x18 ET 30 front and 11x18 ET 4 rear ) , RS bushings , H&R narrow body sway bars , Bilstein PSS coilovers , OEM top mounts , 993 Turbo ( I think ) big brake kit , 5mm spacers all around, MPSC2 tyres in 235/295 , and track oriented camber
( something around -2.7 / -2.5 )

As already mentioned the front wheels are 9X18 ET 30 and the lower suspension is fitted on the narrow body inner holes, the steering feel is not too bad , but I m sure it could be much better , and to make the car and front wheels look close to the real 3.8 RS , but especially to make the geometry
as intended by Porsche on the 3.8RS ( or eventually better if the advice is to use some 993 or RSR parts into the equation )

I also read other topics that mentioned a possible few mm difference of disc bell spacing depending if the discs used are from a 993 or a 964 , I m not sure of what discs are fitted on my car

From the different things I read I think that I d want to order some Tramont 9x18 wheels with the correct OEM ET 48 of the 964 turbo and RS 3.8 , fit the lower suspension in the outboard holes , rotate or replace the top mounts , buy the front H&R sway bar for the W/B and ( if required ) replace the tie rods

Would like to know if this sounds correct to you based on the available info , if there are other OEM parts required , or for example if you would order the wheels with a slightly different ET than the OEM 48 , or even order them in RSR specification in 9.5x18 , for some reason ?

I could consider later on to replace the uprights to BBI or 993 GT2 , I would also like to know if those change the wheel placement and required ET or not.


Thanks a lot for all the info

stupenduzzman

Do you have any pictures of your wheel setup on the car? My car has a turbo widebody installed with narrow rear control arms. I believe they moved the front suspension to the widebody setting but I’m actually interested in moving it inward so I can fit a front wheel with lower offset to match the rear.

Maxi_z

Regarding the wheel offsets and narrow body or widebody front mounting points

I would like to know if there are other parts ( except the 993 longitudinals ) that could make the actual width different compared to a real RS 3.8

For example on my car there is a big brake kit installed and depending if it s actually from a 993 turbo or a 964 turbo could there be a difference in the discs bell ( hub ) thickness ?

I ask that as I d like to order some new tramont wheels in the correct RS 3.8 size 9x18 ET48 and move the mounting points and I would want to be sure that I get the most correct offset for my set up

Thanks

Remo85

I know this thread is years old,..but I'm also considering the narrow to widebody conversion. Has anyone an example picture of the "struts bolted differently" on the front suspension if the suspension is moved to widebody? Or could somebody explain how exactly the struts need to be mounted diffrently?

Thanks for your support!

Gus

It’s really very straight forward. Open the frunk and look at the back left and right side of the spare tire area. You will see three bolt holes on the left and right side on the floor area. The 2 inside bolt holes will have a bolt in them, the outside bolt hole will be empty. To go to wide body position you have to go under the car and remove the 2 inner bolts on each side and reposition the lower unit to allow the outside bolt hole to be used. The center bolt hole is used in both position. This move the suspension out about an inch on each side.
Another change that must be done when you move the lower position to the outside is the upper shock tower needs to be reversed. Unbolt the shock tower and rotate it 180 degrees. This is the proper position for the upper shock tower when changing to the wide body position.