race911

Curious if you want to disclose that number, or a ballpark. Unless this car has some decent money already spent on it toward trackworthy equipment, you're $5-7-10K (depending on new/used and self/shop install) away from it being a track car.

Just to pull something out, of the cars in the $12-14K range I've seen locally, by the time everything is where it needs to be you're pushing $30K. And once you get to that number, there are some pretty nice cars already done.

AndrewLang

Oops double post

AndrewLang

Ken,

I think the price will stay between me and the seller, unless you catch me at a bar one night and get me a little drunk

I wasn't really looking for a track car. If I had found a car for around 25 with a fresh motor and some nice track duty mods I would have hopped on it. I actually offered the asking price on a nicely modified car out here with low miles on the new motor but the owner didn't end up selling to me. That being said it is nice to get a car at a price that when you add the bits YOU like, it ends up costing what a similarly modified car would cost. Plus you get to spend more time in the garage and away from the women in the house hehe.

Porscheholic

I would have done the same Andrew - get the engine rebuilt and the car in tip-top shape by a shop you trust in Tennessee, and then have a blast driving your "new" baby back to California. A road trip like that doesn't come along very often, so you have to go for it when the opportunity does arise. I think you'll be fine - you'll love the car once she's been brought up to speed.

dehavens

Wicky is a good dude and is actually finishing a rebuild on my 1991 964 now. I'm sure you saw it there. Quit bothering that guy so he can get that done.

Somebody was driving my car and mis-shifted from 3rd to 2nd causing a mechanical over-rev. This broke most of the rocker arms and bent the exhaust valves. In addition to fixing that I decided to upgrade the Valve Springs with Jerry Woods and replace the valve guides. He might be done this week.

AndrewLang

Thanks for the support! I haven't decided yet whether I'll drive it back after the rebuild or just have it transported back. I've seen quotes as low as 600 from TN to CA. It all depends on what would be more ideal for engine break in: driving on the freeway 2000 straight miles right away or daily driving back here in california.

I was looking at both your car and your engine for quite a while when I was down at the shop, and Wicky did tell me the unfortunate story. Sounds like you'll be back working shortly. I was taking a look at the suspension on your car, are those the Bilstein PSS9's or something similar? Just wondering how you like them for track duty and if you have any other suspension work in mind. How about your top end are you changing the valves at all or just the springs? Not sure what else is in your motor so I'm just wondering what you are having Wicky do for you. Hope you get your car back soon because that means mine gets started on that much quicker haha!

dehavens

The previous owner installed Bilstein HD shocks, H&R springs, and H&R sway bars. It is nice setup but not fully adjustable like the PSS9/10s.

The motor was stock. He sent the heads off to the machine shop (memphis motorwerks, i think) where they inspected them, replaced the bent valves, replaced the valve guides, cleaned everything, performed a valve job, and installed the upgraded valve springs. When they came back they looked brand new. The rods were also removed to make sure they were not damaged and I believe new rod bearings and bolts were used when he put it back together. I also had the tin, which are metal bits (shrouds) that are around the motor, cleaned and powder coated black. I highly recommend doing that as the tin looks great now. It was rusty and rough looking before. Of course, all new gaskets will be used when he puts it back together. I hope to be driving her soon.

AndrewLang

Seems like that shock setup is very common, and you still have ride height adjustability it looked like so you can still cornerweight the car, that's probably the most important thing anyway. I don't find myself messing with rebound or compression very much.

Sounds like your motor will be nice and healthy in no time! Let me know how your motor feels when you get it all back together!

AndrewLang

Just thought I'd post an update here and keep this thread alive. Half of the engine (the side with the leaky cylinder) was taken apart and its confirmed that the top piston ring was broken on that cylinder. Definitely glad we chose to open it up. I'm going to go with a full rebuild including the bottom end so my wallet will be a little lighter but I'll be happy to have a car with an engine that I get to choose the components of.

After speaking with a large variety of people both on this board and off I've decided to go with the engine below:

EBS Cylinders 107 ext 102 int requires cylinder core
JE 102mm Pistons 11.5 CR
Pauter Rods including ARP Rod Bolts from EBS
EBS Super C2 or Sport 964 Cam Shaft Regrinding at EBS
Big Valve Kit from EBS with Valve Springs 51.5mm int 41.5 exh
LW Flywheel and clutch kit from EBS
Race Exhaust System 964 (no catalytics) 2 exitFVD11196415
Steve Wong Custom Tuned Chip
Headwork for larger valves but not porting

As you can see most of the parts will be from Don at EBS. I really liked speaking with him, he was very helpful, and most importantly the prices are very reasonable.

Yes I've done all the reading on the negative posts here about JE pistons but based on all the evidence I've decided to go with them. Opinions are welcome. I'm waiting to hear back from Steve Wong about whether they can burn a custom chip for this setup.

-Andrew

92silver964

Very interesting. Taking quite a plunge,eh? I am in the middle of a rebuild and on the fence about a few things, so I always like to see what others have done or are doing. The EBS cylinders are made by boring your sleeves and Nikasil replating? You cite the 107 part number but all I see is 100-102 on their website. Am I missing something? The price for the JE's plus modified sleeves seems pretty modest for a 3.8L upgrade. You've researched enough to feel comfortable with the reliability?

Thanks for taking the time to post what you're doing. Certainly helpful for me to see. Good luck!

PS - did EBS hazard a guess at post-rebuild hp/torque levels?

AndrewLang

EBS didn't offer up estimated HP and I didn't ask. For the cylinders they are as you mentioned, bored out stock cylinders which are replated. The 107 is the external diameter which is the stock sleeve diameter. I suppose that's why I have it there. You are looking at the right part on their site its the 100-102.

I'm pretty comfortable with the build specs as both Wicky and Don have good things to say about these components. The only negatives I've heard about the JE pistons is the noisiness which I don't think ill mind.

Ill have to have a look at your build thread if you posted one. What sort of components are you choosing between? I definitely suggest sending some emails over to Don. He is very helpful at answering questions and making recommendations. He always gets back to me fast and tells me the truth as he sees it about the components.

92silver964

Thanks, Andrew. About to call Don at EBS now. I'll let you know what he says. Thanks again.

race911

I'd get a quick consult from Steve Weiner or one of the other true experts on using a non-Mahle P/C set. Conservative me, and figuring in doing all the labor myself on cores that practically cost me nothing, still lead me back to Mahles. Of course, I'm seeing what the fastest of the fast racers out here have experienced (Mat Lowrance built engines).

92silver964

I talked with Don at EBS Racing. Very nice guy - knowledgeable but not pushy. He has provided a good number of sets of JE pistons and LN sleeves and has not received negative feedback. He thinks the bad press for the JE pistons is due to dated issues which have been resolved, from not installing matched sets (they buy one or the other and fit with the existing other half), or from using improper rings. He has seen improvements in the JE forging/design. Granted, it's not a Mahle, but it's half the price. He does not see any issues in using the JE pistons for a non-racer like me. According to him, the P/C clearance of about 1-1/2 mils is comparable to the Porsche design, and should not result in leakage or noise. Also, he is checking on the spec weights for the two pistons (JE vs Mahle) and will let me know the difference.

Comments?

He is recommending a cam regrind and is emailing me the spec's. Don seems to be a fan of Steve Wong chips and can help me provide the info SW needs to produce a tuned chip. I'm interested in what he can offer and I'll discuss it with my mechanic tomorrow.

Cheers.

AndrewLang

This is exactly the same information Don conveyed to me when I called. I didn't mention that I wanted to use ateve wong chip so ill give him another call and see what kind of information it is he can give to steve wong for the chip. I've also spoken to steve wong via email and gave him the specs I posted above and he was comfortable with it, obviously he's done plenty of chips. He also said he can make adjustments to the chip after the car is dyno tuned using the AFR plot from the dyno to make necessary adjustments. Sounded good to me!