CentVingt

Rennlisters, I seek your wisdom...

Well, this morning my car didn't start... Well it cranked nicelly until i drained the battery (5-6 times) -- well, not completely drained, i don't want to loose the adaptive ECU memory... jk

I've got the car since October and i've been driving it every week days all winter. It's not the first time we get in to -20C range... (passed -30 with wind factor). We had rain 2 days ago, followed by some snow yesterday and cold today... Love winter in Quebec. The Wet temperature might have contributed to the issue. When i bought the car i did expect having problem in the cold since the car is a '89 and came from the nevada desert :P Never saw temperature under 10C.

Anyone can tip me on possible cause ? I'm thinking frozen accelerator plate, frozen injector, frozen fuel pump (well frozen water i the lower gas tank). Trying to figure out how i can isolate the problem.

I must admit that the the hydraulic buildup was doing a bit more noise then usual. Consistent with the temperature. Noise might have been the brake pump or fuel pump but tank is kept full in winter. Not unusual noise, just louder.

As for oil, for those who will ask, i'm running elf 5w30.

The car is in great shape, drive it yesterday in deep snow and icy condition. This is by far the best winter car I ever had. Grip is excellent, instant heat , I could go long on this one :P

CentVingt
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964C489 - Guard Red Coupe

klr10

Have you tried a new DME relay? It's worth the cost of one to try it even if you find you don't need it straightaway they're a good spare to carry.

CentVingt

I have a spare DME relay on hand, will try it once i'm back at home.

Was thinking i should try fuel anti-freeze. Might help if it's the fuel line that is frozen.

Does anyone knows if there's type of fuel anti-freeze that should not be use on the flat-six ? The thing is that, if it's the fuel lines, i'll have to garage it to allow to unclog. The antifreeze might not work on already frozen lines. We are entering a week long of -20ies.

CentVingt

Andy Roe

Essayez le DME relais. Je pense aussi que c'est le problem...

Bon chance!

MoparMan

I probably wouldnt start if it was that cold either. WOW. Have you thought about a block heater. I had one on my 325 while I was stationed in Alaska. Works like a charm. just have to remember to plug it in at night. I would probably try thawing it out in the garage for a day or so then trying the fuel anti-freeze. you could have a sticking throttle plate. have you checked to see if it is all free moving. pop the lid and actuate the throttle by hand. (see if she moves or not) you should be able to hear the throttle plate popping closed when you actuate the cable. just my 2cents. GL.

KirkF

Cold shouldnt be a problem. Mine has reliably started down to -40C.

Almost every time one of these cars turns over without starting like that, its the DME relay. This relay provides power to both the DME and the fuel pump. Unfortuneatly they run too much power through these relay contacts, and they tend to corrode and randomly fail with time.

Kirk

frankvan

Agree with Kirk (whom i haven't seen on this board for a while?)

Mine has started fine at -40 (C or F, they're the same at that point!) although I rolled a tire off the rim because it was frozen . The one problem at that temp is that it won't hold idle until the engine warms up. Not sure what the issue is there - frozen ISV, sticky AFM, just doesn't like the cold? Haven't used a block heater, I don't even have a heated garage, but do use 5w50 synthetic. The problem I see with a block heater on these is where do you put it? You can heat the case but what about the heads and all that really cold oil sitting in all the lines and the reservoir and the "radiator" up front?

I have had problems with it sitting in a very damp environment - it sat for three weeks in the rain on the west coast and wouldn't start. I put one of those small ceramic heaters under the engine to dry it out (maybe?) and it started a few hours later.

As for noise, my PS pump makes noise all the time when it's colder than about -10. It goes away after a few minutes of driving. And the brake pump does seem to run a little longer on startup.

Have to admit, with snow tires the C4 is the best winter car I've driven yet. (it might not be the fastest or grippiest car in the snow, but it always puts a smile on my face and that's what's important! )

CentVingt

I've charged the battery and changed the DME relay to no avail.

It seems to want to start, so i gess there is fuel comming in. Might not be enough (bad pump) or other consideration i'm missing. The throttle seems to move ok..

Frankvan ? what is the ISV AFM acronyms meening ?

I've been thinking of heater for sometime now... I've found a kit (altho running on diesel) used for trucks for heating all fluids. But on our sixes, except heating the oil, it is not that usefull.

CentVingt

raspberryroadster

may not have anything to do with cold -alternator is possibility.

frankvan

ISV - idle stabilization valve. a variably orifice device that bridges across the throttle valve to allow some air to maintain idle speed.
AFM - air flow meter - a seemingly never ending source of fuel injection woes. it's normally a vane type sensor sitting just past the air filter. tells the computer how much air is entering the engine (so it can adjust timing and fuel delivery).

other causes - moisture in distributors, coils, ground strap on engine, fuel filter, blown fuse, etc....
(I had a no-start condition because the oxygen sensor was bad and kept blowing the fuse - which is also the fuse for the fuel pump. you've checked the fuses, right?)

Streetfighter

Have you tried unplugging the battery? It works for me sometimes, I unplug it for a night and reconnect it the next morning. Otherwise try swapping out the DME, cheap easy fix.

Indycam

A bad alternator will not cause it to not fire .
Have you given it a bit of starter fluid ?

CentVingt

Here's some news...

Tried to start it on Saturday, was getting close but not enough ( Temp was -21 to -14 that day). Added a bottle of fuel anti-freeze, and later on that day it was not starting either. The Engine was not reporting any faults. But on Sunday, it was getting a bit warmer (-15 to -5), so since it would not start we moved it in the driveway. Doing so might have help the antifreeze unclog the lines cause about 30 minutes later the car started. Alternator was sending normal voltage.

It made a huge cloud of white smoke. My guess is that was water, car was running rich that would be consistent with a cold start and the fact that i probably drown the engine. Ran the car for a short ride (30 minutes or so) later that day so that the engine had time to fully warm up.

This morning at -14 it started great. Took it to work, without ALMOST any problems. Only thing is that the rear wing won't lift Might have frozen or one of my helpers might have used the wing to push... Will have to check on this one at lunch today.

Thanks all for your inputs, will add a couple of your hints on my next maintenance list.
CentVingt,

springer3

I recall my 911T had a quantity of condensed water in the fuel, and had both starting and running problems every time the temperature dipped significantly below freezing. I removed and cleaned my fuel tank, and fixed the problem. Possibly you can get the bottom fuel out from the fuel sending unit. Change the fuel filter ASAP. Cut open the old one to see if water is present.

Good luck!

Bill Simon

My 964 was sitting in winter storage with the battery out and on a trickle charger. I put in the battery and car no start, I ordered a new DME and put Heet in the gas tank. Still no start up. It turns out when I put the battery back in, the anti-theft device would not allow the car to start unless I locked then unlocked the door. So when you put a new battery in or reconnect, lock and unlock the door to deactivate the anti-theft device.