Mark J

Wouldnt mind other peoples thoughts on this, particularly those that have owned both variants of 911.

I am going to see two mid eighties 3.2 Carreras at the weekend, both seemingly in pretty good condition though both hovering around the 150k mark mileage wise, but have had some extensive bills spent on them to keep them fresh(er).

As mentioned on here before, my racing/classic 911 brain keeps telling me i want a rear drive only model and that also, the older they are, the lighter/more nimble they are.
Until i at least try them for myself i will never be at peace!

I am quite expecting a rude awakening when i might suddenly find a lot clunkier gear change from an older 915 box, lack of power-steering, weaker brakes perhaps? and less general refinement than my 964 has. I am also a little concerned that a 911 with 150k on it is going to feel a lot more tired than my current 88k C4. I am also worried that the 80's 911s just dont look as aesthetically pleasing as a 964.
But on the plus side i am expecting a lot more feedback through the s/wheel, less understeer and a generally more nimble alive sportscar.
Intended use is sometime daily driver/weekend sports car/occasional track day use and some european touring....proper 911 territory
I will be putting an uprated sports suspension and generally trying to inject new life into whatever one i possibly end up buying.

Am i making a big mistake? should i instead sell mine and hunt a C2 964? or is the older carrera going to impress me in its own right?

Your thoughts gents?....

Rocket Rob

Mark,

I understand your dilemma. I enjoy a light simple car too. I test drove both late Carreras (with G50's) and the 964's when I was shopping for my first 911. Each has its charms. I chose the 964 because of how it felt. It felt a bit more modern without loosing the classic 911 shape and charm. I also liked having ABS and the 3.6 motor.

My advice is drive both and let your heart decide.

DaveK

Don't be - if it's well maintained, it really shouldn't be an issue. My 964 has 178k miles on it and still feels like a well maintained modern car. In fact, it still surprises me just how good it is, and certainly feels much tighter than my 85k mile 10 year old Supra.

I do think you might find the 3.2 lacks the modern feel - but I don't think you need to worry so much about the mileage if it's been looked after.

DAVISRILEY

Mark, I have had both. And I really like both. I got rid of the 3.2 for one reason, and that was it was a targa. The 3.2 was a bit more"alive", and it did feel lighter. But when I got rid of it for the 964, I was commuting 30 minutes each way, and it was my only car. The climate control defies logic, and it just felt old, for lack of a better term. I loved it, and at some point would love to have another pre 964 car, but would I trade? I don't think so. I agree with rob, the 964 is much more modern. Climate control that works, much nicer interior, more modern suspension and brakes, etc. But I also agree with driving them. Try them, I'm sure you will like them.

pantera43

One thing is for certain you will miss the G50 tranny unless you buy a later 87-89 3.2. The 915 crash box has a lot to be desired. A hugh upgrade is the Wevo shift unit. Worked wonders in mine.

Dan

Tuscany964

I had the same thoughts as you exactly. My dream 911 is a Euro 964 RS and it has been since it came out. There may be faster ones, lighter ones, rarer ones etc., etc. but it's the one that floats my boat the most. Unfortunately I can't afford it so I went out and got the best 964 I could afford, be it 2 or 4.

As most people here I've spent (maintenance) money on it, modded it, and now basically know it inside and out - which you obviously cannot say about a car you are going to purchase (in most cases). So there is no way I would now sell my 4 to buy a 2 or a 3.2 - I'd only change it for an RS. The only reason I would sell it is if somebody were to offer me an unrealistic amount of money for it and then I would probably go for a cheap 2 to turn into a pseudo RS (but remember the slope gets really slippery very quickly).

Fortunately the mods I've done recently have turned it into a fantastic car (even on the track). Of course it's no race car as it is not stripped, it has a sunroof, a/c and all sorts of other stuff you don't really need but hey that's the way it is and it really is amazing how good it can be both on the track and on the road. The day the tranny or 4wd system goes I will probably replace it with a 2wd tranny (probably euro 993) and I don't care if it costs more than selling the 4 and buying a 2 I'd rather not have any surprises with a new car and at that point it will probably be certain that it will be keeper.

In your case though whatever you do I would not sell your 88k C4 for a 150k 3.2. If you really don't want to keep the 4 I would either go for a c2 or 993 but that's just my opinion, good luck whatever you decide

911Jetta

Mark,
I think you'll end up finding out that the 964 is an incredible platform. You know it already, but it's good to hunt around and see if there is something else out there calling your name. It's in our nature. Regardless, you'll be back in a 964 at some point.

You are at a good point, you want a rawer car. You can find that in a 964 and we can help!

Use the 964RS as a guide to what your car can become? As Tuscany mentioned, you know your car and if over the years you've spend time and money maintaining it, then you have an excellent platform to start with. Upgrade to more direct suspension, get sticky tires, drill the airbox, by-pass a muffler and cat., buy RS motor mounts, etc. You are in a good position, you want more edge and won't be disappointed if your car isn't stock or too loud or stiff. The 964 shell may weigh more and be more complex... but it looks classic, is very stiff (perfect race car platform) has ABS, airbags, coil-over sus., etc. RS it and you will be happy.

Regarding the C4 issue. I understand. I wanted and have a C2, but I read the article (titled?) "wringing out the C4" and learned a lot about how to improve the C4's handling via, larger front tires and different swaybars. After reading that I was open to both. I happened to find a C2 w/LSD first. Lots of C4 respect here.

My car has 120k miles and it feels like it's built to go 300k+. I've never been in a car like that. I'm sure all 911 up to 993s are built like that...

You also mentioned the looks (impact bumper)... I agree. If I were to go older, I would hunt for a restored longhood or longhood Rgruppe type car.

Either way, new car means starting over and combing through things BEFORE the mods begin. Good luck! Long live old 911s! Mod it, you will be happy.

Best,
Udo

911Jetta

Mark,
I think you'll end up finding out that the 964 is an incredible platform. You know it already, but it's good to hunt around and see if there is something else out there calling your name. It's in our nature. Regardless, you'll be back in a 964 at some point.

You are at a good point, you want a rawer car. You can find that in a 964 and we can help!

Use the 964RS as a guide to what your car can become? As Tuscany mentioned, you know your car and if over the years you've spend time and money maintaining it, then you have an excellent platform to start with. Upgrade to more direct suspension, get sticky tires, drill the airbox, by-pass a muffler and cat., buy RS motor mounts, etc. You are in a good position, you want more edge and won't be disappointed if your car isn't stock or too loud or stiff. The 964 shell may weigh more and be more complex... but it looks classic, is very stiff (perfect race car platform) has ABS, airbags, coil-over sus., etc. RS it and you will be happy.

Regarding the C4 issue. I understand. I wanted and have a C2, but I read the article (titled?) "wringing out the C4" and learned a lot about how to improve the C4's handling via, larger front tires and different swaybars. After reading that I was open to both. I happened to find a C2 w/LSD first. Lots of C4 respect here.

My car has 120k miles and it feels like it's built to go 300k+. I've never been in a car like that. I'm sure all 911 up to 993s are built like that...

You also mentioned the looks (impact bumper)... I agree. If I were to go older, I would hunt for a restored longhood or longhood Rgruppe type car.

Either way, new car means starting over and combing through things BEFORE the mods begin. Good luck! Long live old 911s! Mod it, you will be happy.

Best,
Udo

Mark J

thanks for all the great posts gents. Trust me, this is a very very tough decision. My thoughts echo Tuscanys in almost every detail with regards to knowing my own C4 quite intimately and loving almost every bit of it.
But the problem is, i do often find myself thinking that the car does feel a bit too heavy for a sportscar and the 4wd bit eats into my soul. I know the RS 964 would be my perfect 911, or an out of reach 70's RSR and had thought my path lies in getting hold of a C2 964 and going down the RS route. But there is a big difference in weight between a stock 3.2 carrera and a 964 to start with, yet alone before i carry out any mods.
Still, this may all be warm air if i dont like the Carreras when i drive them at the weekend. I'll report back my findings afterwards.
It will still be gut wrenching saying goodbye to my black C4 someday. Funnily enough i was at a meeting today in a glass fronted building and over the shoulder of the guy opposite i could see my car sitting hunkered down on the tarmac and it just looked pure 911 poetry...i couldnt take my eyes off it. The 964 is a glorious shape for sure.

boxsey911

Is one of the 3.2s you're going to look at a white clubsport lookalike at Eporsch?

Turbo Jonny

My 2cents , theres nothing thats better with the Carrera platform. Yes its lighter ( & weaker )
but my C2 is quicker/ more nimble ( with suspension upgrade ) and i could make it lighter
if i wanted. The 964 is where its at !

raspberryroadster

have not owned the 3.2, but drove several after my wife & i decided to buy a air cooled 911.
....the transmission (my opinion) in earlier generation sucks, parking lot get-go's and parallel parking without power assist not a happy event, and engine of course less power.
really the only argument for us was between a 964 & 993....and we dearly love style of widebody 964. early days we discounted prior generation - our focus was on street performance - road trips.

perhaps if you were to build it out as a track - perf. car a 3.2 might be a decent swap, but as as a road tripper-street performer....would be a mistake.big step back in technology.
cheers, gerry

Streetfighter

Just my two cents, but I like the 3.2, and I like them for there size. I am 5'10" so a small car works for me! Anyway, I drive my 964 everyday and I like it since it is modern, even though the AC sucks. Otherwise it performs well and is a lot of fun to drive. The 3.2 on the other hand is like taking a step back and is more spartan. The 915 gearbox that I drove was okay, but not as flick happy as a G50 box. Brakes are older and don't stop as well as the 964 does. HVAC on a 3.2? Ummm...not better than a 964. Overall it depends on what you enjoy. Whenever I see a 3.2 I always walk over and look at it. Just something about it always draws me in. Good luck.

Tuscany964

Please give us an update, I'd like to know what your thoughts are after you have a go

N51

Your AC needs attention. Drove my RSA across the western desert at 110+ degrees.
Fan never above '2'.