clubrcr

Norbert:

Please help us. But you say you have proof of this car being authenic, just let us know what you have...maybe it's something straight from Porsche AG. Just show us.

cobalt

Norbert,

I do believe in what Adrian has written. I had many conversations with him regarding his book. I was the one who straightened him out about the number of M718 coded US 94 turbos made and he admitted the info provided by Porsche was not at all clear. I feel he did a fine job compiling most of the information and is more accurate than most. Yes errors are there but something like this goes beyond simple quantities. To call this an America Roadster 2 years after production on them halted would also be totally out of character from what I have observed Porsche AG to do. Although PCNA I have seen give out tremendous amounts of false info.

FYI the America GS is the last 964 built the last widebody built and from speaking with the owner the only widebody cab made that was not an AR or speedster for US market. I have seen the America GS in person I have no doubt that info is correct. I am also confident that the owner of the America GS knows more than most of us regarding these specialty cars. It is a one of a kind car and has little relationship to the 964 other than the platform otherwise the car was totally custom and at a price you would not believe. It started out as a 1992 but was not completed or delivered well into 1995 and was the last 964 to reach US boarders. I know that for a fact. I know the owner of the America GS had inside contacts of the highest level that very few people do and was the only reason why such a car was built.

I know little about the jubilees other than what I had read years ago. Adrian states 911 were made and AFAIK that is the correct number. At least that is the number I recall reading about when the info was first released.

My reasons for doubting this car is real more than anything is because of the C of A. IMO it is clearly a forgery. I have owned many Porsche's and have many C of A's obtained over a number of years. As i had said they do vary based on date of publication although this one is incomplete as were the forged copies I have seen for similar cars claiming to be something they are not. The C of A would be spelled out differently with all option codes listed and if the MSRP was listed as I had stated PCNA would only do this if a window sticker was provided. If the window sticker was provided the option codes would be listed. Plain and simple. There is also no reason why the can supply me birth date and completion dates of my 1993 964 C2, 1993 928 GTS and 1994 964 turbo 3.6 and yet can't supply this info about a rare car like this. It just doesn't add up based on the information we have been provided. what I see is info taken from the car and put to paper without any of the normal verification.

I also highly doubt that Porsche would included America Roadster in the C of A or would have resurrected a defunct model for one cars production. This would throw a red flag up when being imported to the US department of transportation. That is unless it was identical to the earlier model which this clearly is not.

So although this very well might be a turbo look or wide-body cab i don't believe it to be an AR and there is more doubt than certainty IMO. I do not doubt you believe you are correct and applaud what you are doing to register these cars however if the C of A is all the proof there is I am even more in belief this car is a fake. So if you have other documentation from Porsche AG I am sure I speak for the rest in saying we would be very interested in seeing it. If you can provided better evidence I will be happy to admit I was mistaken.

Trader220

the RS in the vin number means nothing even the 968's in 1994 have RS in the vin

clubrcr

I have had several conversations with Adrian about 964s and he actually used my US Carrera Cup in his book. Adrian will tell you he has not put all the cars in his book. He told me that he only put what he could prove, or Porsche would document, i.e. the 5 widebody 993 cabs from Beverly Hills Porsche.

TL-Register

>FYI the America GS is the last 964 built the last widebody built and from speaking with the owner the only widebody cab made that was not an AR or speedster for US market. <

Anthony !

I dont know the VIN of the America GS - Owner was not willing to give it to me. What he told me : it is not the last one build! Your in good contact - ask him - I did ! The last ROW Turbo-Look Cab is polarsilver and located in Porsche Museum - sorry for that. Read in Adrians book what he wrote ...

Please dont get me wrong - he did a great job ! And i learned that is is very difficult to find true facts, allthough your in close contact to Porsche ... But when there is a prove that he is wrong, how can he be right ?

I have the dokument from Porsche, but i´m not allowed to show it - so i´m a liar in your eyes, nothing i can do !

wide Regards

Norbert

cobalt

I was talking US delivered as we are talking about a US spec car in question here. I stated it in my comment that we were talking US market. The US market is different than ROW I normally only involve myself with US spec cars since these are the ones that are available and most interest to me. So the America GS is the last 964 to be delivered to the US as I stated.

JJJMCD

The rear seats were deleted in the 1992-1994 US model 964 cabs because, by that point, US DOT regs required three-point seatbelts (rather than just lap belts) in the rear and Porsche didn't want to do the engineering to create a three point mechanism for the soon-to-end 964. Compare the rear seats of US model 993 cabs, with the three-point seatbelt mechanism on the "hump" in the center, between the rear seats.

993 cab:


1991 964 cab:


Here are three America Roadsters with rear seat delete.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1992-...1%7C240%3A1318

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1992-...1%7C240%3A1318

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ameri...1%7C240%3A1308

The car that is the subject of this string is the only one with rear seats, maybe because it was originally a Canada market car.

Trader220

No offense but there is no proof that he is wrong unless you're talking about a doc from Porsche which you cant show so in other words it does not really exist.

clubrcr

Why doesn't the owner, the ebay seller, have the documnetation from Porsche AG. Would Porsche give the information to Norbert and tell the him that he wasn't allowed to share it with the owner of the car? If Norbert was able to get the information what is stopping the Ebay seller from obtaining the same info?

I would fly to Germany and talk to Porsche AF "face to face" if it meant I could get the true value for my car......

SKM

CoA's have proven to be unreliable as the PCNA staff these days seem to me to be clueless about aircooled Porsches. Case in point - the CoA for my RS America stated it was an America Roadster. Of course, I explained to PCNA that it was not and they corrected it. Last week I called into the PCNA customer contact group about a 964 issue and the highly-trained staffer asked if a 964 was a 996.

Regarding the rear seat vs. parcel shelf, I recall reading that all 964 cabriolets had the parcel shelf because Porsche had not perfected the seat belt and shoulder harness design at that time. The 993 resumed rear seats in the cabriolet models.

Cupcar#12

y COA states my car is a low option 92' C2 coupe
no mention of "cup" the Cup option, only Us emissions, LSD, 17" forged Wheels (not correct, btw, they are cast normal Cup 1's), and storage Compt instead of rear Seats.

COA's are not the most reliable things, when i dug deeper with some historic reps from porsche vintage they had no idea - the window sticker is what matters (which i have as well)

so even if the COA is authentic it can be wrong.

IMHO....

Colbalt is dead on on the GS - altough i have not see it in person but know the owner well.

TL-Register

Cupcar#12

not disputing that ... just stating the fact that COA's can and are wrong, esp in the US.
it would be a neat car if documented properly.

TL-Register

With that you are defiantly right !
Please let me ask one thing : When you go to your authorized Porsche Dealer is he able to show you the detailed configuration of your car ? Is it that what you call windowsticker ?

It is possible in Germany! - Porsche Database shows the whole equipment, all optioncodes ( including the options which were used modelspecific ), color, date of delivery.
We call that " Arbeitskarte " ( Workingcard ) each and every car has one - equal if it is an ROW or an US Specific car.

What is not detailed shown on this card is what Porsche Exclusive fitted - you only see Option Code 09991. ( delivered to exclusive Department )


To the rear seats : Attached is a Picture of a AmR with rear seats - Trader220 will say " Photoshop" VIN of the car is : WP0CB2965NS460809




I´m sorry that i cant share the dokument with you or the seller of the car. I have a deal with Porsche that i can have those detailed informations to get a true verification for my register, but i´m not allowed to give them to anyone ( reason is that Porsche sells those informations ).

.. and let me ask you : is it good style to call me a liar, please tell me one reason why i should do ?

wide regards

Norbert

cobalt

Norbert,

I want to correct one of my earlier posts. I looked at my different C of A's last night and as I said they differ depending on when they were issued. I have 2 for my turbo and one is framed from The PO. This one has the option codes along with options listed the more recent ones only list the options without the codes. In either case they are dated and in 2000 they had a notary seal embossed over the signature. They all offer completion date and additional info missing on the one posted which I would expect if the window sticker was provided supplying the MSRP.

Are we sure that cab came with rear seats or could they have been added later. This has been known to be done. Sometimes depending on the state we can get away with things you can't over there.

Yes the window sticker is the document supplied with the car and looks like the one I am posting which is for a 928. In order for PCNA to list MSRP a window sticker is required. Otherwise it is stated as unknown. I am surprised someone would pay so much for a cab nearly $11k more than my turbo which had supple leather and a few other options without adding leather seat backs or dash etc.

We welcome any additional proof that this car is real it would be interesting to see the truth. If it is than this changes most everything we know about how Porsche handled some things during this period.

BTW you say Porsche sells the info you can't provide yet it was obtained gratis for the 928 registry which has all the build info for every US 928 from 1989 to 1995. I agree with you the 09991 codes are not supplied with the info. So what other documentation does the owner have. At one time someone obviously had the window sticker to obtain the C of A you claim is real. What happened to it and how or why would someone dispose or loose such an important document.

Here is the window sticker FYI.