elbeee964

Purely track-related question: HANS always preferable to airbag? (provided no-nonsense 4/5-point)

ie, are airbags the "Everyman's HANS"?



...tawk a'mung yohw-selfs

Tuscany964

Is it possible (and easy) to disable the airbags for track use and then reactivate them for road use?

sml

I know this is an old thread ... but go the euro-ncap website and take a look at the videos of the crashes at 60kmh.

Without the airbag, it wouldn't look good with your face slamming into the steering wheel.

vasculardoc

I was in a moderate speed crash in a Jag XKR when someone did a U turn across 2 lanes of traffic in front of me with 20 m to react. Needless to say 1800kg of english GT doesn't stop that quickly. I have no doubt that the airbag and seatbelt pretensioners saved my bacon (man they hurt/smell/are noisy when they go though !). My 90 C4 doesn't have them (not mandatory in Oz when it was imported) and its the only safety thing I miss. I'd buy one with a bag over one without.
My 2c

Flagg

I think it is good to have airbags - BUT.........

My RSA has no back seats.

My kids love looking at the Porsche - but my wife says I can not strap in a car seat and take them for a ride til they are like 12.

What I with was that there was a way I could disable the passenger side airbag and have the kids go for rides in the car. And then turn it back on for adults.

I have heard about places that do this...........but my dealership has said they would not take a chance at having an aftermarket company touch my airbags........

Has anyone installed such a key, or switch, to disable the passenger airbag for a child? Just curious..............

Flagg

race911

And there is the answer, as it relates to a 964 chassis 911. Anyone here ever ridden a motorcycle? Ultimately, there are risks. We know that. "Airbag" has become such a panacea these days. That someone may have survived/had reduced injury from passive restraints in a 2005 vehicle has nothing to do with how a 964 "crashes." Take the '73 I'm starting to work over again. In a 30mph (e.g. survivable) header, I think I'd take my chance unbelted in a 964 v. fully harnessed in the '73! Probably similar for a 997 v. a 964. Technology marches on; if survivability at all costs is paramount, make sure you have the most current vehicle.

springer3

Exactly correct. But there is always going to be a class of accidents that are not survivable, and many more types of crashes that will maim. Safety engineering has come a long way, but there are limits.

The best defense in any car is still accident avoidance. If possible stay home when there is ice on the road. You know how to deal with it, but what about the others? Practice defensive driving. Don't drink and drive. Turn off the cellphone. Keep your eyes open for anyone ignoring this advice.

911porschefan

I have installed a bridge clip (I think thats what its called) from the Cup cars. I am told this would bypass the airbag system and deactivate the airbags. My local Porsche dealer has confirmed this as I wanted to put a baby seat in the front. Easy to install, goes in before the airbag system underneath the centre console on the passenger side. From what I remember it is 928 part number (not sure why). Pm me if you want more info.

J richard

I'm having this same thought on my street car, the momo wheel in the racecar is sooooo much nicer than the factory airbag wheel, the slippery leather of the stock wheel, bigger diameter and offset hub take away from the driving experience in my opinion.

At one of the pca events a month ago a 951 was going by the start finish line, and I heard a pop, I thought it had blown off the j pipe from the intake, he rolled to a stop off track, and had to be towed in. both front airbags had blown. This was on a smooth straight part of the track and he wasn't even going that fast. It was obviously some sort of short, but completely ripped up the dash and wheel, and shattered the windsheild. I wonder how he would have come out of it if he hadn't had a helmet on, i think it split his visor as well...these systems work well on contemporary cars but as mentioned the old ones are really too powerful and due to the age of the electrics are basically a loaded cannon pointed at your noggin....good point on the insurance implications tho.

Bearclaw

I certainly wouldn't want to tussle with an ins. co. over a disarmed airbag system, in the event of an injury to myself or my passenger. But I never thought about the implications of an aftermarket wheel. Interesting.
My State Farm agent has called their legal dept. when I've had questions about potential liability situations in the past, maybe I'll ask her this one.
As you could imagine, they tend to come down on the side of caution.

From a practical standpoint, if I had the choice of an '89 vs a '90-'94, with all else being equal, I would take the '89 in a heartbeat. The faults in the airbag system in these cars is just a pain in the a$$, and it's the only thing that really irritates me about the car. 99.9% of the time, I'm the only one riding in my Porsche, so the risk would be essentially mine alone and I'd gladly accept it.

964russ

NO
Airbags r not 4 my porka.

Indycam

If you are properly belted in your head should not hit the wheel or the windshield .

springer3

True, but if you are properly belted it will be difficult to breathe. Belts in the 946 are fine for low-speed crashes, but are way too loose for high-speed, and the airbags are needed to keep you against the seat while the crumple zone does its thing.

Impact of the body against the belts causes injuries. My 1986 300E had seat belt pre-tensioners that get you as tight as F1 belts the instant a crash is detected. Unfortunately the 964 lacks pre-tensioners.

Indycam

That's not what airbags do .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8__vH...eature=related

The problem that airbags fix is
people were driving without belts ,
they would smack into the wheel and or windshield
and do themselves great harm .
An unbelted driver would run into the bag before they got to the wheel or windshield , their forward speed would be reduced so that when the did hit the wheel and or windshield they would do so at a reduced speed .

I've read the nhtsa reports re airbags and it was very clear the a properly belted driver was not helped by an air bag and the an unbelted driver was .
The reports of seatbelts harming people in crashes are about people who do not use the belt correctly . A major problem is when people run the shoulder belt run the shoulder belt below the arm . The force of the belt on the ribs is to great for the ribs when the shoulder belt is run below the arm .
A properly worn belt is sufficient in keeping the driver from impacting the wheel and or windshield .
I have never read a nhtsa or any other , on any real advantage to seat belt pre-tensioner systems . The only mention of an advantage I have seen was to people who might not be using their belts correctly , to people who had loosened to belts for comfort or who had leaned forward . The pre-tensioner systems pulled the driver back so that the deceleration of the body that the belts provide , could happen in the space between the seat and the wheel and or windshield . What I have not read is any real world results that showed a
pre-tensioner system was showing greater driver safety over a non pre-tensioner system used properly .

"True, but if you are properly belted it will be difficult to breathe."
You really don't need the belts that tight , just snug will be fine in keeping your head from smacking into the wheel and or windshield at full speed . The snug belt worn properly will do fine .

"Impact of the body against the belts causes injuries."
Properly worn ? Snug against the body and over the shoulder ?
Not so much really when compared to the injuries suffered by non belted impacts .

"Impact of the body against the belts causes injuries."
http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&s...w=1280&bih=617

That's not to say air bags are bad because they mess up peoples faces ,
I'd much rather have my face messed up by running into an airbag than by running into the wheel and or windshield and having my face / scull / brain messed up .

The side air bags are another story altogether ,
but we are not talking about side air bags in a 964

springer3

I have read plenty on the subject and for anything more than a moderate impact, "properly worn" seat belts would be ratchet-tight like race systems. Standard retractor systems, even when properly used, allow enough slack for the body to accelerate and impact the belt system.

NHTSA had no clue how dangerous a slack belt system is, and even allowed the "comfort clip" that let the driver deliberately introduce slack. When questioned, NHTSA said they believed more people would use belts if they were "comfortable". Clueless.

Mercedes has done the best crash safety research over many years. Why would they deploy pre-tensioners unless their research showed there was a benefit?